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What is the most usefull tank?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
What is the most usefull tank?

EFSoupy's Avatar


EFSoupy
12.06.2012 , 04:45 PM | #21
Larzi, put take the situation from a healer's perspective (with back of the envelope numbers)
40K incoming at 70% total mitigation leaves 12K to be healed
40K incoming at 75% total mitigation leaves 10K to be healed.
Take that over a few hits, nobody's dying yet. With 30K HP and 70% mitigation, you're at 18K HP and your healer is left healing 12K HP. With 25K HP and 75% mitigation, you're at 15K HP and your healer has to heal 10K. In both situations you're still safely alive, but with more mitigation, your healer has 2K (17%) less healing to worry about.
That's why people like mitigation over endurance, because tanks love their healers.

-Chapulin

Larzi's Avatar


Larzi
12.06.2012 , 04:49 PM | #22
I understand what you are saying, but as you put it, it is optimal for my class and content. Even on the curve of DR you are better off having a larger pool as opposed to the minimal dmg reduction from stacking more and more defensive stats.

I am not saying i stack mainly HP, i mean with full 63 mods and set bonuses, i was able to find a very viable set up
15% def, 55% sheild/absorb, and 54 dmg reduction. while kicking 31k hps.

the math does not support the minimal survivability from gaining 5% more in each defensive stat, all while loosing 6k hps? 6k hps is enough to save a raid have a mistake during trash pulls or drop an extra AoE heal on the raid during bosses.

Classes were not mean to be fully optimized, its impossible (if it were possible gunslingers would tank) My point is that you seem very biased and strong willed for all tanks to stack as much mitigation stats as possible.... because your class as a shadow requires it. That is just not true, only my opinion of coruse and i mean no disrespect.

i just feel there is a bad rumor about HP augs concerning tanks, has there every been a game in MMO history that HP was "bad" for a tank? Granted im saying to stack hp after your core defensive stats. So kids of all ages, feel free to stack hp augs and still be a viable contender as a tank!

Shadows can have higher hps than vanguards, but they do not because their dmg is far too drmatic when they take it, my buddy reauged after a raid once and shot up to 34kish. that build did not however work for his class.
Pub: 55 vanguard tank/ 55 mando/ 55 guard/55 scoundrel

Imp :55 jug tank/ 55 pt/55 sin/ 47 sniper

angrydurf's Avatar


angrydurf
12.06.2012 , 06:32 PM | #23
More HP isn't bad. But it is arguably worse than more mitigation no mater how small that mitigation amount is (barring shadows who can eventually get more mitigation through self heals via HP than straight mitigation). In most cases you are probably better off stacking more in some kind of threat stat than HP if your already at severe diminishing returns for all your mitigation stats.

Now that is only relevant when being healed however. For times when you solo (dailies etc, with a DPS companion for speed) there is a point by which you will get more survival time from HP than from mitigation. So long as you are being healed though the more mitigation you have the less pressed the healers will be so long as you have enough HP to survive until heals come in.

In other words, how often have you actually dipped below 6K HP in a fight? Those are the only times those extra HP meant anything.
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post

Star Wars: The Old Republic is the spritual successor to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, also made by BioWare, and not any other game.

sankalp's Avatar


sankalp
12.07.2012 , 01:14 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by angrydurf View Post
More HP isn't bad. But it is arguably worse than more mitigation no mater how small that mitigation amount is (barring shadows who can eventually get more mitigation through self heals via HP than straight mitigation). In most cases you are probably better off stacking more in some kind of threat stat than HP if your already at severe diminishing returns for all your mitigation stats.

Now that is only relevant when being healed however. For times when you solo (dailies etc, with a DPS companion for speed) there is a point by which you will get more survival time from HP than from mitigation. So long as you are being healed though the more mitigation you have the less pressed the healers will be so long as you have enough HP to survive until heals come in.

In other words, how often have you actually dipped below 6K HP in a fight? Those are the only times those extra HP meant anything.
Not only that but leaving a higher mitigation means that you will not dip beyond x hp as much. Here's a simple way to test it. Get yourself a max mitigation set. Do the same content and inspect ur parse. Overall u will take less damage. A 2% mitigation at 25k is 500 hp. Inc damage is 1 k. For ur mitigation to be better than ur end(say 3k more hp) u need more than 151 k inc damage. That's a 151 sec fight. Any op boss will hit more than that and fights are longer.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.07.2012 , 10:52 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by wingzyeah View Post
Hello boys and girls, and srry for my eng. I wanna be a tank. I cant decide which one(guard or vanguard) is for me .Which one is the most usefull at the endgame?( btw is it hard to find a group for operations and wb?) I dont like easy characters, i have a lot of experience in another mmorpg. I want to choose rly interesting class.
You're going to get all kinds of responses, breakdowns, math, diminishing returns, and nit picky arguments over what theory is best and who knows more, which tanks is better because he as a .0002 better base mitigation etc. Might even get some spread sheets.

I've been tanking for years, doing bleeding edge content, different games. Done the min maxing thing too. Its fun, and I don't blame people for doing that because it is a fun part of the game, but the bottom line for me is the tank that is most intuitive, takes the least amount of nit-picky play or buff and rotation watching. I used to fight in competition. When I did I never went in thinking, Ok, move my right arm, now my left....oh, can't toss that kick because I need to first use a two punch combination. LOL I don't want that in a video game. Some people do, and that's good for them. I want my tank to feel natural and flowing.

I play a Powertech because it works for me. There is no situation where I do not have something to through out there, something to use, and I am well prepared for every situation be that ranged, close in, groups, singles, survivability, threat. People may argue that this makes it "easy", but I argue that it makes it less tedious and artificial. I want to tank. I want my char able to tank. I want to focus on situations and how to counter them, not what moving my left foot then my right.

If I come back to the game I'm going to start a Vanguard. If he plays as well as my PT, I'll enjoy him also. Bottom line here OP is to find the tank that fits our style, not the one that does "X" better. You can do "X" just as well if you have mastered your tank and excel because playing him is second nature. So I guess the most "useful" tank is the one with a guy behind the keyboard that is a solid player.

My opinion anyway.
May the Schwartz be with you....

Parthenon's Avatar


Parthenon
12.09.2012 , 09:53 PM | #26
I would just like to note that Kitru worked the word "heuristic" into a discussion about a video game.

*applause*

That is all.
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cities's Avatar


cities
12.10.2012 , 06:53 PM | #27
I'm a PT tank, the talk of PT being "easy-mode" is getting so obnoxious. Be happy with the class you play because you play it, instead of nerding out on not being another class.

My BH was my first character and I rolled it, like many others, without any idea or knowledge of advanced classes or what is what end-game.
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Marb's Avatar


Marb
12.10.2012 , 09:38 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by cities View Post
I'm a PT tank, the talk of PT being "easy-mode" is getting so obnoxious. Be happy with the class you play because you play it, instead of nerding out on not being another class.

My BH was my first character and I rolled it, like many others, without any idea or knowledge of advanced classes or what is what end-game.
Its hard sometimes to take my pt seriously, considering there is little pride in tanking on that class. Like you I rolled PT with no knowledge of game/class mechanics, purely because I predicted it would be the least played of the tank AC's (which it has been).

I look at other tank AC's and yearn for more complexity and depth, and perhaps a set of defensive cool-downs that are good. I think most high end pt's would be totally fine with giving up the high passive maintenance free mitigation in favour of some depth.
Harbinger

Chestnut_Bowl's Avatar


Chestnut_Bowl
12.13.2012 , 09:57 PM | #29
When players like Kitru and KeyboardNinja claim that Shadows are superior tanks, what exactly is meant by that? I've read the statement 'eke out superior performance' many times, but it tell me nothing. At the highest levels, why is a Shadow tank supposedly better than a Guardian or Vanguard? Complexity aside, what does it do different that DPS and healers will appreciate?

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.13.2012 , 10:51 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Chestnut_Bowl View Post
When players like Kitru and KeyboardNinja claim that Shadows are superior tanks, what exactly is meant by that? I've read the statement 'eke out superior performance' many times, but it tell me nothing. At the highest levels, why is a Shadow tank supposedly better than a Guardian or Vanguard? Complexity aside, what does it do different that DPS and healers will appreciate?
DPS will appreciate not having to hold back for a second.

Healers probably very little, many inexperienced healers hate Shadows because of how spiky they are. They may require the least healing of the 3 but they require the most attention. They do have the self cleanse and awesome CD in Resilience which can be a life saver when used appropriately. They are also the best tanks by far for I/E heavy bosses like Stormcaller, Jarg and Zorn.

Basically, all tanks can handle all content in this game. Some tanks handle certain things slightly better. Shadows with I/E attacks or Guardians with enraged bosses or serious "OH $#!T I only have 2% HP left" moments. Really though, the difference is pretty small overall so whatever you enjoy the most is going to be the best tank for you because you will spend the time to get it right.
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Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]