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Mandalorians (Controversy)


StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.06.2012 , 11:04 PM | #1
Ok, I know this controversy has existed for quite a while. Unfortunately I am so blinded by my love of the Karen Travis Mandos that I can't see what people have a problem with about them.

Note- If you could it'd be awesome if you'd answer as many of the questions on the bottom as you feel comfortable answering.

Major points (will update as people post)
  • Killing Jedi (I can understand how 'every' mando being able to do this is a bit absurd. However having a faction whose elites can threaten jedi is not unreasonable.)
  • Beskar'gam (lightsaber *resistant armor... kinda op sure. However it isn't invincible just slows the jedi/sith down.)
  • Culture? (do some people have issues with the militant, family-oriented culture, because that's kinda what its always been even before Karen Travis as far as I know.)
  • Added- Mary Sue (in reference to Karen Travis novels)
  • Added- Not an Original Idea (been done before)

Overall I can see errors and bias in her work, but no more than Allston's Jedi going off and defeating hordes of professional mandos in an effort to reaffirm jedi supremacy. I really feel a middle of the road approach is best here. Making Jedi like gods to the non-force user is bad for character development while making jedi-murdering Mandos greatly reduces the value of the Force.

Did I miss anything? Do you like Super-Mandos or Jedi-gods or maybe somewhere in-between?

Also, where do you stand on a few Jedi fending off hordes of Mandos and the general abuses Mandos have been taking to their fierce reputation (now more just like stupid barbarians) in the recent FOTJ books?

And last but not least, Hippy Mandos. Your thoughts?

Thanks to Everyone for their input
"Being abandoned to my enemies, abandoned by one for whom I once had considerable affection and respect, was like being murdered…and surviving."
-Darth Caedus

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
12.07.2012 , 12:14 AM | #2
the problem with Manados can be summed up in two words.

Mary Sue

DarthMalt's Avatar


DarthMalt
12.07.2012 , 06:03 AM | #3
The over the top stuff was a bit much for a mando fan like me, so an in the middle of the road approach works best. And hippy, no-violent mandos are still something to watch out for. The mando definition is a bit different than ours.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
12.07.2012 , 06:24 AM | #4
Trashed so much through contradictory works and retcons that I don't even bother with them anymore.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.07.2012 , 09:37 AM | #5
Tbh, a jedi/sith should only be threatened by well...a jedi/sith. Am not saying that a non-force user can't take down a jedi or sith, but it really should only be in very certain and special circumstances. They have all this power with them, that it should be near impossible to actually beat one unless the other is a jedi/sith themself and only in specific and special circumstances should that ever change.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Roshe's Avatar


Roshe
12.07.2012 , 09:45 AM | #6
My thought is that a Mando should be equivelant to a Special Forces soldier of any other general army, which makes them tougher/better/smarter than the rest, but not over the top invincible. Jedi and Sith might have a little more trouble when fighting them, but really only Jedi and Sith should give Jedi and Sith true opposition.

Scathe's Avatar


Scathe
12.07.2012 , 09:46 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Tbh, a jedi/sith should only be threatened by well...a jedi/sith. Am not saying that a non-force user can't take down a jedi or sith, but it really should only be in very certain and special circumstances. They have all this power with them, that it should be near impossible to actually beat one unless the other is a jedi/sith themself and only in specific and special circumstances should that ever change.
I don't neccesarily agree with that, since if you limited the threat to a Jedi/Sith to other Jedi/Sith then they become just a bit too powerful. And like you said, under special and specific circumstances would basically leave them open to a very small group of people. You would have to be overly intelligent to find a weakness and make up for the lack of your own Force use, and you would have to find said weakness in the first place. Thrawn is one such example, who was overly intelligent and managed to find the Force-less bubble Ysalimir, but you can't expect others to figure it out like Thrawn did.

I like that there is a society of people, in this case Mandalorians, that can threaten a Jedi on a physical level if not a spiritual one. The Force can only do so much after all, and I like that there are a group of people that don't just back down from a straight up fight against a Jedi or Sith simply because "Oh no, they have the Force and I don't! They're so much stronger than me!"
I am at Peace; for I know Emotion. I have Power; for I also have Knowledge. I have Passion; for I am Serene. I can embrace Mortality; for I know Death, I am balanced through the Force.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.07.2012 , 10:04 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Scathe View Post
I don't neccesarily agree with that, since if you limited the threat to a Jedi/Sith to other Jedi/Sith then they become just a bit too powerful. And like you said, under special and specific circumstances would basically leave them open to a very small group of people. You would have to be overly intelligent to find a weakness and make up for the lack of your own Force use, and you would have to find said weakness in the first place. Thrawn is one such example, who was overly intelligent and managed to find the Force-less bubble Ysalimir, but you can't expect others to figure it out like Thrawn did.

I like that there is a society of people, in this case Mandalorians, that can threaten a Jedi on a physical level if not a spiritual one. The Force can only do so much after all, and I like that there are a group of people that don't just back down from a straight up fight against a Jedi or Sith simply because "Oh no, they have the Force and I don't! They're so much stronger than me!"
The Force can do anything its never been stated to have any real limits, and while I can give Mandos points for bravery...in the end they should be no match for a jedi.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Scathe's Avatar


Scathe
12.07.2012 , 10:14 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
The Force can do anything its never been stated to have any real limits, and while I can give Mandos points for bravery...in the end they should be no match for a jedi.
Alright, well allow me to restate. The Force may not have limits, but the people using it do. Palpatine killed himself from an out of control Force Storm. Nihilus ended up being consumed by his power to the point where he may not even have a physical body. Sion could only die so many times before he couldn't use the Force to keep himself alive. Luke was nearly incapacitated when he had to create a Force illusion of an entire fleet, it drained him to the point where he looked almost skeletal. Becoming one with the Force is a near death sentence, as seen with Anakin Solo. So the people using it are limited in their abilities, they are not gods, and they should have a challenge from people that can match them in physical prowess if nothing else.
I am at Peace; for I know Emotion. I have Power; for I also have Knowledge. I have Passion; for I am Serene. I can embrace Mortality; for I know Death, I am balanced through the Force.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.07.2012 , 10:34 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Scathe View Post
Alright, well allow me to restate. The Force may not have limits, but the people using it do. Palpatine killed himself from an out of control Force Storm. Nihilus ended up being consumed by his power to the point where he may not even have a physical body. Sion could only die so many times before he couldn't use the Force to keep himself alive. Luke was nearly incapacitated when he had to create a Force illusion of an entire fleet, it drained him to the point where he looked almost skeletal. Becoming one with the Force is a near death sentence, as seen with Anakin Solo. So the people using it are limited in their abilities, they are not gods, and they should have a challenge from people that can match them in physical prowess if nothing else.
Except Palpatine later controlled the use of his Force Storm, Sion's will had to be erodded before he could actually die, Luke the same as Palpatine. The people are limited at first sure, but if they master said ability they are no longer limited and while the user may be limited in using abilities in which doing so it could destroy their bodies, it does show that such abilities are possible.

Challenge physical prowess?...Well, lets see here...the jedi/sith still have The Force with them to augment their abilities and are trained in CQC, with all that going for them they should be able to win against any person in CQC. This is proven with Jango vs Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan pretty much mopped the floor with him with Jango getting in one good headbutt.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.