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Dread Guard Relic BiS?


Nanok's Avatar


Nanok
12.06.2012 , 01:22 PM | #141
well thats the point. we have 100 % apen for 4 seconds every 15 seconds. my guess is that the energy one pulls ahead ... but i havent done the math for it. i will when i get the comms to test it
Peace is a lie...

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
12.06.2012 , 01:32 PM | #142
the probability of the proc to be on CD for those 4 seconds is pretty high, just comparing the uptime to downtime of the 100% armor penetration.

i honestly woulnt waste the comms

IrishTR's Avatar


IrishTR
12.06.2012 , 07:38 PM | #143
So lets do this right and fill in the blanks...

BiS Relics (Primary for majority scenarios not the couple special cases) start listing them all together (trying to list popular builds please update if I miss one and I'm majority Imp so I didn't focus on Pub equivalent)...

Assassin Tank = DG Relic of Ephemoral Mending and DG Relic of Shield Amplification
Assassin DPS (Madness) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?
Assassin DPS (Deception) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Sorcerer Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH of Boundless Ages
Sorcerer DPS (Hybrid) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?
Sorcerer DPS (Madness) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?
Sorcerer DPS (Lightening) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Mercenary Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH Relic of Boundless Ages
Mercenary DPS (Arsenal) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Powertech Tank = DG Relic of Shield Amplification and EWH Relic of Shrouded Crusader
Powertech DPS (Pyro) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Juggernaught Tank = EWH Relic of Imperiling Serenity x 2
Juggernaught DPS (?) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Marauder (Annihilation) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?
Marauder (Carnage) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Operative Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH Relic of Boundless Ages
Operative DPS = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?
Sniper DPS = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and ?

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
12.06.2012 , 07:47 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by IrishTR View Post
So lets do this right and fill in the blanks...

BiS Relics (Primary for majority scenarios not the couple special cases) start listing them all together (trying to list popular builds please update if I miss one and I'm majority Imp so I didn't focus on Pub equivalent)...

Assassin Tank = DG Relic of Ephemoral Mending and DG Relic of Shield Amplification
Assassin DPS (Madness) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence
Assassin DPS (Deception) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence

Sorcerer Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH of Boundless Ages
Sorcerer DPS (Hybrid) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence
Sorcerer DPS (Madness) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence
Sorcerer DPS (Lightening) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence

Mercenary Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH Relic of Boundless Ages
Mercenary DPS (Arsenal) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of the Kinetic Tempest

Powertech Tank = DG Relic of Shield Amplification and EWH Relic of Shrouded Crusader
Powertech DPS (Pyro) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Dark Radiance

Juggernaught Tank = EWH Relic of Imperiling Serenity x 2
Juggernaught DPS (Vengeance) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence

Marauder (Annihilation) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence
Marauder (Carnage) = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Elemental Transcendence

Operative Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH Relic of Boundless Ages
Operative DPS = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Dark Radiance
Sniper DPS = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and DG Relic of Dark Radiance
That is all if the current thinking is correct. I have only tested Kinetic and Elemental, and others have tested Internal. Kinetic and Internal definitely seem to base their crit from tech, Elemental from Force crit. The Energy one doesn't seem to have been tested yet, but the assumption is that as there are already two using tech, it will use force crit. It would only ever be useful for a Rage spec Juggernaut, but I have been told their DPS is lower in an ops environment than Vengeance so I shouldn't bother looking into it.

Nanok's Avatar


Nanok
12.06.2012 , 11:49 PM | #145
so... some simple math without any actual testing to try to back up my claim that energy might pull ahead.
(gonna use marauder ability names coz its been some time since i played sentinel)

from what i understand from testers in this thread the proc is around 6 seconds for mercs and such.
since a carnage mara has many hits per minute i suspect the proc happens even more often since its got 4.5 sec cd, but for the sake of calculating a worse case scenario lets assume 6 seconds, so a max of 10 procs per minute.

assuming no crits all the way the elemental one would do:

210*10 = 2100 dmg per minute

for the energy one:

280 * (1 - 0.35 * (1 - (0.20 + P)))

raid setup with 20% armor pen from other classes,
a hit without gore will hit for

280 * (1 - 0.35 * (1 - (0.20 + 0))) = 201.6

a hit with gore will do 280

you can use gore a maximum of 4 times per minute. if only 1 proc is affected by gore the total dmg would be :

9*201.6 + 280 = 2094.4

if i get 2 procs affected by gore

8*201.6 + 2*280 = 1612.8 + 560 = 2172.8 which is greater than the elemental relic dmg by 72.8 per minute.


so .. if i get 2 gore affected procs per minute the energy one becomes more effective.
real question is ... how many procs will actually be affected by gore... that's what i was going to try to test.
if any1 has any info on this plz let me know. also plz correct me if i have made any mistakes or made wrong assumtions.

ps: sorry for the spelling .. i just woke up
Peace is a lie...

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
12.07.2012 , 12:12 AM | #146
Something seems wrong with those numbers, or the operations dummy. If I plug those numbers in for an Arsenal Merc, with no additional armour penetration above the 35% from the cylinder I get 216.3. It only hits for 207 though.

Edited version of your formula: 280 * (1-0.35 * (1 - (0.35 + 0))) = 216.3

That is if my assumption that these were what your numbers meant Proc Damage * (1-Boss Reduction * (1 - (Armour Pen + Additional Armour Pen)))

Nanok's Avatar


Nanok
12.07.2012 , 02:59 AM | #147
yes and in my calculations i assumed a raid setup where i would always have 20% armor pen from jugg or similar debuff.

so thats the reason for 1- (0.2 + aditional pen)

is it wrong ?

edit: not sure why yours is hiting that low. i am sure that without armor pen the formula above holds true .. so 35% is the actual dummy armor. i have picked up the formula from this thread .. so ..
Peace is a lie...

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
12.07.2012 , 03:07 AM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Nanok View Post
yes and in my calculations i assumed a raid setup where i would always have 20% armor pen from jugg or similar debuff.

so thats the reason for 1- (0.2 + aditional pen)

is it wrong ?

edit: u also used 0.35 twice . the first 0.35 is boss reduction . hmmm did i understand something wrong ?
I had assumed that the 0.2 was a sniper/jugg etc debuff, so substituted that with 35% armour penetration I get from my cylinder. On the operation dummy with 35% armour penetration the 280 damage relics hit for 207. That formula says they should hit for 216, so either something isn't correct in the formula or the operation dummy has a different armour value. I should probably see if my sniper or jugg has enough comm's for one and test it at 20% to see.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
12.07.2012 , 09:45 AM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Raekor View Post
I had assumed that the 0.2 was a sniper/jugg etc debuff, so substituted that with 35% armour penetration I get from my cylinder. On the operation dummy with 35% armour penetration the 280 damage relics hit for 207. That formula says they should hit for 216, so either something isn't correct in the formula or the operation dummy has a different armour value. I should probably see if my sniper or jugg has enough comm's for one and test it at 20% to see.
Go a few pages up for the numbers that come up with various levels of armor pen, tested on my guardian in focus spec, 30% instead of merc/man do 35%, but will be close.

Was using the kinetic relic instead of energy, but I was testing damage number, not crit rate.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

DarkDisturbed's Avatar


DarkDisturbed
12.07.2012 , 09:49 AM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by IrishTR View Post
Operative Heals = DG Relic of Boundless Ages and EWH Relic of Boundless Ages
In my opinion, this is still iffy. It's likely the DG relic would be wasted on overheals.