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[Underworld Trading] Underworld Trading, the Broken Crew Skill

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
[Underworld Trading] Underworld Trading, the Broken Crew Skill

Droidiphile's Avatar


Droidiphile
12.06.2012 , 08:32 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by RaptorClown View Post
simple solution - buy 340mission from GTN D:
If you have seen the prices of mission lately, it is apparent that this is not a solution. For example, 100K for a purple lvl300 Underworld mission. If I'm not mistaken, that won't even get you Grade 6 stuff - I may be wrong about that, but it is still a far too expensive method of acquiring crafting matz.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
12.06.2012 , 10:38 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by MonkeyCannon View Post
Simple solution, load a new instance. I speak from experience with UT, TH, and Diplo at 400. Do I ever have a problem? No.

This is what I do. I look and run the missions I want and then atleast 2 of what I don't want. Then I immediately load an instance (leave or enter the ship for example) and look at the missions again. If none available, I load a new instance. So far the most I've had to reload in a row was 10. 10 seems like a lot but consider that an Abundant+ mission for mats is around an hour, 10 reloads is nothing. Anyway, when I do get missions I want, I drop the bad missions my companions are doing for those. Dropping missions means you simply get the mission cost back, so you don't actually lose anything.

The reason I run bad missions in the first place is to take them off the list of possible missions. You can't have a companion run a mission that another companion is currently running, so taking as many bad missions off the list means a greater chance that a good mission will pop up.

Is it annoying that I have to trick the game like this? Yes and no. Yes because I of course want what I want right now when I want it, but no because I understand why the crafting system is set up that way and somewhat agree with it.

If you want to do this, it's good to know how many Mod, Abund, Bount, and Rich yield missions there are of a specific reward. For example, in both Bioanalysis and Archaeology, there is only 1 abundant compound and 1 abundant power crystal mission at grade 6. So reloading for more is stupid.
As I see it, there are two problems with what you have stated.

The first is that the current system does not stop people from getting the available missions they want, it simply makes doing so frustrating and annoying. Making things frustrating and annoying simply turns players off and is not good game design.

Better design would be to allow players to directly select any possible available mission in a given tier, and balance the supply through the number of concurrent missions available and the mission returns.

The second goes back to balancing mat supply with mat demand. Even if we assume the probability of any given mission appearing in the list is the same as any other mission, we still are left with the fact that metal has a significantly higher demand than cloth, yet does not have a higher number of possible missions.

Solutions here include increasing the number of metals missions so the ratio of metals to cloth matches the demand / usefulness to simply removing cloth and having all crew skills use metals to chainging all force crafted items to use cloth and all non-force crafted items to use metal.

finelinebob's Avatar


finelinebob
12.06.2012 , 11:48 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
As I see it, there are two problems with what you have stated.

The first is that the current system does not stop people from getting the available missions they want, it simply makes doing so frustrating and annoying. Making things frustrating and annoying simply turns players off and is not good game design.

Better design would be to allow players to directly select any possible available mission in a given tier, and balance the supply through the number of concurrent missions available and the mission returns.

The second goes back to balancing mat supply with mat demand. Even if we assume the probability of any given mission appearing in the list is the same as any other mission, we still are left with the fact that metal has a significantly higher demand than cloth, yet does not have a higher number of possible missions.

Solutions here include increasing the number of metals missions so the ratio of metals to cloth matches the demand / usefulness to simply removing cloth and having all crew skills use metals to chainging all force crafted items to use cloth and all non-force crafted items to use metal.
/QFE

Between Cybertech, ArmorMECH (not armorTECH), and Synthweaving, roughly 89% of their combined schematics require Underworld Metals. Perhaps someone from BioWare would care to explain why, if that is the case, only 25% of Underworld Trading missions are Underworld Metals? No?

Well, I know a good word for it: Sadism.
Jedi Guardian JonBonJovi'wan
"Wanted: Dead or Alive"
Defenders of Monkeys - Prophecy of the Five
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Dragoon-'s Avatar


Dragoon-
12.06.2012 , 04:34 PM | #14
The sad thing is this problem have always been there since I played this game the first time in August 2011 as bounty hunter. People have always complained about the lack of underworld metal missions unlike scavenging, but no one in charge ever cared to change it. Even though I remember during the guild summit at least they acknowledge it and said they would looking into it.
Elara Dorne: I'll be ready with any number of regulation-approved punishments when the opportunity arises.
"Everyone fights, Private Ganbar. Either you go in shooting or we freeze you in carbonite and use you as a shield.."

slapcin's Avatar


slapcin
12.06.2012 , 05:41 PM | #15
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=411811

See this this is the problem.....

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
12.06.2012 , 06:01 PM | #16
I do the same thing someone else mentioned. When I'm trying to get metals I send all my toons that I can send on missions for that category. I do all the gift missions and fabrics missions to get the metal missions.

The downside is, even if I get a few Underworld Metals missions, chances are I'm still not going to get the one metal I need which in most cases is Mandalorian iron. I've sent my comp that adds +15 UT or however much it is to do a rich yield mission and still didn't get mandalorian iron. To make matters worse, these missions at this level take at the least 40-55 minutes to complete with high affection. I usually send Vette or my ship droid to do these missions and it's a crap shoot if I get anything.

Best thing to do that I've found is to buy the wealthy crew skill mission from the GTN and send your comp out for an hr and 45 minutes to do that mission. Buy another one and do the same thing again. If you have slicing you may be able to get them easier without paying as much as people charge. But then those can be even more random.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

finelinebob's Avatar


finelinebob
12.06.2012 , 07:47 PM | #17
"Gaming" the system by taking unwanted missions, stepping into or out of your ship, then seeing if your new randomization has what you need is truly the only option we have on getting the missions we need. That's funny --as in odd, not comical -- since BioWare puts so much store into STORY. By the time you hit combat level 50 and skill level 400 in UWT, what should your story be like? Should it be that of a well-developed and diverse supply chain that can get you what you need when you need it, or should it be this:

"Hey Doc! I know you have some underworld contacts (he does have a crit to UWT after all), so could you go out and get me some Mandalorian Iron? I mean, there are so many Mandalorians around, someone has to have some. Yeah, here's the keys to the Corvette, head to Mandalore if you need to. If they don't have any there, see if you can pick up some Ciridium, if you can get it cheap. It's not as good, but we might have to make due with it. And if you can't find any of that, could you at least pick up a set of that Zeltron Personal Aroma Kira likes? It's our anniversary next week and if I forget to get her something, she'll force push me out of MY cabin into the crew quarters. Holy Midi-chlorians, who's the Jedi Master here, anyway?

"And Doc, I know you like the perfume almost as much as the ladies (Courting Gifts are a favorite of his, even if he isn't your romantic partner) ... but if I sniff any of Kira's favorite on you again, you're going back to Balmorra in the escape pod (if I can ever get the hatch to open)."

(Well, hopefully that last bit was funny, too -- comical, not odd.)

But even at combat level 50, UWT skill 400, what do you get if you game the system?
  • Grade 1 has 1 Neutral Moderate Yield and 1 Neutral Abundant Yield metals missions (out of 9 possible UWT missions)
  • Grade 2 has 1 Neutral Moderate, 1 Neutral Abundant and 1 Factional Rare metal missions (out of 13 possible UWT)
  • Grade 3 has 1 Factional Moderate, 1 Neutral Abudant and 1 Neutral Bountiful metal missions (out of 14 possible UWT)
  • Grade 4 has 1 Factional Moderate, 1 Neutral Abundant, 1 Neutral Bountiful and1 Neutral Rare metal missions (out of 16 possible UWT)
  • Grade 5 has 1 Factional Moderate, 3 Neutral Bountiful and 1 Factional Rare metal missions (out of 16 possible Pub or 17 possible Imp UWT missions)
  • Grade 6 has 3 Neutral Moderate and 1 Factional Abundant metal missions (out of 16 possible Pub and 15 possible Imp UWT missions)

(Don't fret over the discrepancies in the number of Pub and Imp missions for Grades 5 and 6 -- they're different in terms of how many Gift missions are available.)

So, if you are really Jonesing for some metals, even when you and your crew are at your most "skillful" level, you can only send out all five for the same grade of metal at Grade 5, and for everything else the yields are biased towards the low end. Best to run those UWT missions early and often. To make matters worse, the missions you have been doing the longest -- Grade 1 -- never get better than 1 Moderate and 1 Abundant Yield mission. In other words, no matter how "skillful" your crew becomes, they actually never learn to do things better

BioWare: can our next companion -- actual crew member, not part of a story arc like for consulars -- be a Voss Mystic? With the way the deck is stacked against us, I'd really appreciate knowing what I will need before I actually need it. TYVM!
Jedi Guardian JonBonJovi'wan
"Wanted: Dead or Alive"
Defenders of Monkeys - Prophecy of the Five
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MonkeyCannon's Avatar


MonkeyCannon
12.07.2012 , 03:56 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by VigDiath View Post
I do the same thing someone else mentioned. When I'm trying to get metals I send all my toons that I can send on missions for that category. I do all the gift missions and fabrics missions to get the metal missions.

The downside is, even if I get a few Underworld Metals missions, chances are I'm still not going to get the one metal I need which in most cases is Mandalorian iron. I've sent my comp that adds +15 UT or however much it is to do a rich yield mission and still didn't get mandalorian iron. To make matters worse, these missions at this level take at the least 40-55 minutes to complete with high affection. I usually send Vette or my ship droid to do these missions and it's a crap shoot if I get anything.

Best thing to do that I've found is to buy the wealthy crew skill mission from the GTN and send your comp out for an hr and 45 minutes to do that mission. Buy another one and do the same thing again. If you have slicing you may be able to get them easier without paying as much as people charge. But then those can be even more random.
You forgot the part about loading a new instance once you sent your companions out to check for any UT metal mission, If you get one, cancel a mission your comp is currently running for it. Also, +15 efficiency means that companion will run it faster. You want a companion with +x critical.

Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
As I see it, there are two problems with what you have stated.

The first is that the current system does not stop people from getting the available missions they want, it simply makes doing so frustrating and annoying. Making things frustrating and annoying simply turns players off and is not good game design.

Better design would be to allow players to directly select any possible available mission in a given tier, and balance the supply through the number of concurrent missions available and the mission returns.

The second goes back to balancing mat supply with mat demand. Even if we assume the probability of any given mission appearing in the list is the same as any other mission, we still are left with the fact that metal has a significantly higher demand than cloth, yet does not have a higher number of possible missions.

Solutions here include increasing the number of metals missions so the ratio of metals to cloth matches the demand / usefulness to simply removing cloth and having all crew skills use metals to chainging all force crafted items to use cloth and all non-force crafted items to use metal.
My simple solution can be done right now. Yours involves changing how the crafting system works. I don't disagree with you, we're just not answering the same question. Mine answers, what can I do about it right now. Yours answers, what can Bioware do to make it better.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.07.2012 , 10:29 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by uziforyou View Post
I'm pretty sure I've seen a thread on this before but couldn't find it in a search.

Anyway, aren't the missions that are available to send crew members on supposed to be randomly generated as to what type they are; fabrics, metals or companion gifts (although I know companion gifts are favored by some percentage)?

There's no way they can be random. I'm sure like a lot of players I'm looking mostly for metal missions for mandalorian iron. Seriously, if I'm lucky I'll one metal mission between two separate toons that have underworld trading. I can't count the number of times that there's nothing but 6 companion gift missions. I've even logged in and out as much as dozen times and still get no metal missions!

Seriously Bioware? Working as intended?
Been broken since launch. A number of us have tested it and demonstrated it to be true. They have and continue to ignore it. It is one of the main reasons that I have not played in a few months and am thinking on leaving altogether. You spend more time running missions, failing at all levels while trying to gear you alts then you do actually playing your alts.

Low level gear should be a drop in the bucket, not an adventure of epic proportions. It gets worse as you level.
May the Schwartz be with you....

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
12.07.2012 , 10:32 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
As I see it, there are two problems with what you have stated.

The first is that the current system does not stop people from getting the available missions they want, it simply makes doing so frustrating and annoying. Making things frustrating and annoying simply turns players off and is not good game design.

Better design would be to allow players to directly select any possible available mission in a given tier, and balance the supply through the number of concurrent missions available and the mission returns.

The second goes back to balancing mat supply with mat demand. Even if we assume the probability of any given mission appearing in the list is the same as any other mission, we still are left with the fact that metal has a significantly higher demand than cloth, yet does not have a higher number of possible missions.

Solutions here include increasing the number of metals missions so the ratio of metals to cloth matches the demand / usefulness to simply removing cloth and having all crew skills use metals to chainging all force crafted items to use cloth and all non-force crafted items to use metal.
Yep. That and more.
May the Schwartz be with you....