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Tanking Stat Weights


dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
12.05.2012 , 08:48 PM | #1
2.2 Info here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=645948
Updated 5/30/2013: Using simulator for kinetic bulwark, found time averaged contribution to absorb of 5.52%, which switched around 20 defense to absorb.
Updated 5/14/13: AMR for Guardians changed back to underworld enhancements. at 4500 dps, it turned out to be taking 2 less dps per second at the cost of 2k health pool. 32.7k vs. 34.7k according to AMR.
Updated May 10 2013: Updated total mitigation data for vanguards since the stance provides extra 1.5% armor rating than stated (no difference to stat weights, just overall mitigation, so the relic numbers are a little off). added numbers under the slope and intercept to show how mitigation per point changes at higher values of stat pool.
Updated May 6 2013: Changed the AMR profile for guardian to use crafted 66 immunity and sturdiness, which gives better overall mitigation. also updated all profiles for using a nano stim.
Update 4/30/2013: New calc for Kinetic bulwark used. makes shadows want a little more absorb for 790 gearing.
Updated 4/29/13 New askmrrobot links where sins/shadows now use high mitigation due to high dps numbers (very low internal/elemental). due to implants and ears affecting the minimum shield rating, i redid the relic numbers with these profiles as a launching point (where the 2399 stat budget was the starting point, with itemization limitations). suugest just shooting for the AMR profiles.
Updated 4/27/13 for static defense on defense proc relic
Updated 4/20/13 for 2.0

HOW TO USE THE TABLES: Depending on your gear level, you will have a different mitigation pool (in the tables this is "total"). To find the values of your mitigation stats, such as defense, shield and absorb, for which the damage you take is minimized, add up your mitigation ratings (found by hovering over your character sheet) and use that as your total (assuming you are not stacking accuracy). In the total column, find your total, and use the mitigation ratings in that row to achieve minimum squishiness (d is defense, s is shield and a is absorb)

I have also provided tables for the relics as they affect each class. I used the mitigation (post armor) while the relic was "on" and applied that mitigation to the uptime (assumeing 23 seconds between procs), and used the AMR profile stat pools as the baseline for the downtime. the weighted value is the expected damage over an extended period of time. You want to use the lowest possible, but remember you can only use one proc relic (unless you go with PVP relics which were not calculated).

DISCLAIMERS:
In the builds linked (askmrrobot.com), the last remaining points of each build are up for debate, but they do not matter for the calculations. most choices are bertween different force regen or damage concerns.

I have not taken "Oh Crap!" cooldowns, such as oil slick and the like into account because assuming that you have a 7% defense buff at all times is drastically different then having a 20% buff for 20 seconds every 60 seconds. I have tried to include all buffs that come from skilltree as well as from debuffs on the boss from the tanks rotation, such as slow time and the like. I do not attempt to use mitigation stats with unmittigatable damage in mind.

I am hoping that people will offer suggestions as to how these assumptions could be altered to better estimate optimal stat weights. Perhaps the 50/50 split between accuracy-damage types is naive, If statistics are presented, or better yet, revised formulas, we can get better data.

examples of formulas used to minimize squaishiness are presented in the shadow section. I am using a revised version of keyboard ninjas spreadhsheet, where i have modified many things and double checked the eqautions to actual characters in game to make sure everything lines up.

I may have missed something ... so review my work

all of this assumes:
38.965% of damage is melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy
38.965% of damage is melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 100% accuracy
20.7% of damage is force.tech kinetic/energy damage
1.37% of damage is force/tech internal/elemetal damage

base armor rating for light armor at arcanian is 2894
base armor rating for light armor at underworld is 2999
base armor rating for heavy armor at arcanian is 5466
base armor rating for light armor at underworld is 5666

post armor mitigation:

(0.7793*(1-dr)*(0.5*(1-d-0.1)*(1-s*a)+0.5*(1-d)*(1-s*a))+0.207*(1-dr)*(1-r)*(1-s*a)+0.0137*(1-ir)*(1-r))

where d-0.1 from is from 90% accuracy attack, 0.5 from fraction melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy
dr is damage reduction form armor, to kinetic and energy damage
d is defense fraction
s is shield fraction
a is absorb fraction
ir is internal resistance
r is resiatance

__________________________________________________ __________
shadow tank 2.0 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...3-a4087603dcb5

health= endurance*10*1.08, 0.05 from warrior/knight buff, and 0.03 from skill tree. remember you get a
base of 360 endurance before mods etc.

armor= armor_rating*(1+1.15), where 1.15 comes from stance

kinetic/energy resist (damage reduction from armor and talents) = (armor/((armor)+240*55+800) + 0.02
+0.02 +0.05, where 0.02 comes from skill tree, 0.02 come from 4 set bonus and 0.05 from slow time

internal resist (internal/elemental damage reduction) = 0.10 + .02 + 0.09 + 0.02 +0.05 , where 0.1 is from willpower buff, 0.09 is from skill tree (tech mastery), 0.02 form 4 set bonus, 0.02 is form skill tree (jedi resistance) and 0.05 from slow time

force/tech resist = 0.02

defense = 0.1 + 0.05 +0.06 + 0.30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((Def_Rating/55)/1.2)) , where 0.1 from base, 0.05 from accuracy debuff of force breach, 0.06 from skill tree

shield = 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.05 + 0.5*(1-(1-(0.01/0.5))^((Shield_Rating/55)/0.78)) , where 0.15 comes form stance, 0.2 comes from kinetic ward (with 4 peice set bonus), 0.05 is base shield from shield offhand.

absorb = 0.04 + sum_i=0..8(.01*i*binom(i,15,shield)) + 0.2 + 0.50*(1-(1- (0.01/0.5))^((Abs_Rating/55)/0.65)) , where 0.04 comes from skill tree, shield dependent portion comes from kinetic ward stacks eaten to give bulwark stacks (15 comes from (1-d)*20/.87, 20 is length of ward and .87 is swing time for snv hm), 0.2 comes from base from shield offhand

self heals:
health*0.08 every 12 seconds from 3 stack telekinetic throw
368 every 6 seconds or so from combat technique.

you get 0.072 hps per point of endurance and 3.9E-5*dps mitigation per second per point of mitigation

total d s a mit slope/intercept
2000 378 790 832 0.3310 -0.000039
2100 431 790 879 0.3268 0.40867
2200 484 790 926 0.3227
2300 537 790 973 0.3187 3.9598E-05
2400 590 790 1020 0.3149 3.83053E-05
2500 643 790 1067 0.3112 3.70595E-05
2600 661 825 1114 0.3076




amr: 531,868,1050




SHADOW RELICS:
healing does 634/23 s... need 4519+ dps to make any relic better than healing relic (see table of dps values)

base relic weighted diff mit=634 heal dps
def proc 0.32468 0.30595 0.31979 -0.0061 4519
abs proc 0.32594 0.30728 0.32107 -0.0049 5625
shd use 0.32594 0.30739 0.32130 -0.0046 5945
pvp(ewh) 0.32594 0.32128 0.32128 -0.0047 5913
use def 0.32594 0.31077 0.32341 -0.0025 10902






__________________________________________________ ____________________

Guardians http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...1-ff52c0cf84e6

skill tree

dust storm: 5% defense
guard stance: 15% armor rating boost
blade barricade: 5% defense. 5% resistance
blade barrier: (0.05 * 11180 + BonusHealing) * 1.2. bonus healing = 0.14*strength+0.17*power+0.17*force power. remember you get a 5% buff to power and force power and a 11% buff to strength.
shield specializtion: 4% shield
inner peace: 5% internal resistance
guardian slash: 3% kinetic/energy resistance, 3% internal resistance
single saber mastery: 3% defense

sorusu form: 61.5% armor rating, 15% shield, 6% kinetic resistance, 6% internal resistance
offhand: 5% shield, 20% absorb
base 5% defense.

get 10% internal resistance from willpower buff.

get 0.01554 absorb per second for each point of strength (with 11% boost) and 0.01785 absorb per second from power. you get 3.08E-5*dps mitigation per second form each point of mitigation.

absorb around 117 per second.

total d s a mit slope/int
2000 850 790 360 0.3385 -3.08111E-05
2100 903 790 407 0.3351 0.399834577
2200 956 790 454 0.3319
2300 1009 790 501 0.3288 3.12649E-05
2400 1062 790 548 0.3257 3.02887E-05
2500 1115 790 595 0.3228 2.93461E-05
2600 1168 790 642 0.3200 2.84358E-05


amr: 1178,868,623

GUARDIAN RELICS:
base relic weighted diff
def proc 0.32565397 0.311133188 0.321865939 -0.0048
abs proc 0.326631781 0.311936685 0.322798277 -0.0038
shd use 0.326631781 0.313514168 0.323352377 -0.0033
pvp(ewh) 0.326631781 0.322987574 0.322987574 -0.0036
use def 0.326631781 0.314868838 0.32467129 -0.0020

__________________________________________________ ___________

Vanguard http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...d-03637ae825f7

combust: 5% kinetic reduction, 5% internal reduction
rebraced armor: 16% armor rating
shield vents: 2% shield
ablative upgrades: 4% absorb
ion screen: 2% kinetic reduciton, 2% internal
deflective plating: 4% defense

heat screen: 3% for 6 seconds after heat blast
heat blast: during heat blast: (25+0)*1.5+(25+1)*1.5+(25+2)*1.5*1+(25+3)1.5
taking time averaged for both gives (3*6+25*1.5+26*1.5+27*1.5+28*1.5)*(1/12) = 14.75% absorb. KBN got 15.33. so im just going to call this number 15%.

power armor: 2% kinetic reduction, 2% internal reduction
integrated cardio package: 3% endurance

stance: 5% kinetic damage reuction, 5% internal damage reduction, 60% increase armor rating, 15% shield chance,

extra 1.5% armor rating from bug for stance.

set bonus: 2% resistance, 2% defense
resist buff: 10% internal resistance

because you want shield here, i didnt need to run numbers for 720 and 790 separately.

total d s a mit slope/int
2000 846 740 414 0.29058481 -2.77459E-05
2100 828 802 470 0.28777525 0.346038276
2200 814 862 524 0.284975389
2300 803 921 577 0.282189185 2.7862E-05
2400 794 978 628 0.279419981 2.7692E-05
2500 788 1034 679 0.276670619 2.74936E-05
2600 783 1089 728 0.273943515 2.7271E-05


amr: 798,1052,719

VANGUARD RELICS:
base relic weighted diff
def proc 0.281093161 0.267712039 0.277602433 -0.0044
abs proc 0.281994229 0.268823737 0.278558448 -0.0034
shd use 0.281994229 0.267568957 0.278387911 -0.0036
pvp(ewh) 0.281994229 0.277392254 0.277392254 -0.0046
use def 0.281994229 0.269959988 0.279988522 -0.0020

theblaznee's Avatar


theblaznee
12.06.2012 , 05:03 AM | #2
And it's still completely incomprehensible..

How are we supposed to read your post? Are the numbers for the stats what we should aim for, or? And which line then - or why more than one line for optimum stats to aim for?.. It makes absolutely NO SENSE..

I don't mind math heavy posts, when they are actually well written and are comprehensible by people other than the author..
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.06.2012 , 10:06 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by theblaznee View Post
I don't mind math heavy posts, when they are actually well written and are comprehensible by people other than the author..
They're comprehensible. The values at the left of each column are the total stat budget and the 3 values to the right of it are the ratings that you should stack up to with that given budget. It's actually pretty simple.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
12.06.2012 , 11:10 AM | #4
As far as I know, all boss attacks beyond "special" attacks have 90% accuracy. Special attacks (e.g. Kephess's Empowered Slash) have an insane amount of accuracy baked in as they are designed to be undefendable (even with cooldown). These conclusions are based on a fairly large amount of log analysis that I did as part of building my corpus of boss DPS information. I didn't specifically look at accuracy though, so more rigorous work here would probably give a better answer than I'm able to at present.
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theblaznee's Avatar


theblaznee
12.06.2012 , 05:23 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
They're comprehensible. The values at the left of each column are the total stat budget and the 3 values to the right of it are the ratings that you should stack up to with that given budget. It's actually pretty simple.
Why on earth would I write that a post is incomprehensible if it actually wasn't?.. And yes, I can add numbers together, that doesn't make the post any more well written.

What's my statsbudget at any given point in the game? From the outside it just looks like a bunch of random lines with the numbers added up on the side..

So NO, it's not comprehensible or useful in ANY way.. And you writing "yes it is", doesn't make it so..
Don't mistake my silence for ignorance, my calmness for acceptance or my kindness for weakness!

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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.06.2012 , 06:08 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by theblaznee View Post
What's my statsbudget at any given point in the game? From the outside it just looks like a bunch of random lines with the numbers added up on the side..
Your stat budget is equal to the sum of all of your secondary stat ratings, which means it can very pretty heavily depending on the types of mods and enhancements you choose to use. At the moment, if you're using 2 passive relics and full mitigation mods and enhancements with 27 grade gear, you'll pop right a bit over an 1800 stat budget. With 2 non-passive relics, it's manage just ahead of a 1600 stat budget.

These numbers can actually be useful if you're looking into how to tweak your stats for better survivability. When someone says "I have XX% abs, XX% shield, and XX% defense; how can I tweak those to be more appropriate?" you can simply ask what their ratings are, inform them of their stat budget, and tell them how to retweak their numbers to a more appropriate ratio. Shield will almost always be a bit higher than what is listed in the optimal stat budget (since Shield doesn't compete with anything else in the stat budget

Quote:
So NO, it's not comprehensible or useful in ANY way.. And you writing "yes it is", doesn't make it so..
It's incomprehensible to you because you don't know what you're looking at. If you did, it would be perfectly comprehensible. Sure, it's not formatted perfectly, but it's more than enough to get the point across. Just because *you* have no clue what it means, does not equate to information being incomprehensible or useful since, to someone that *does*, it's entirely comprehensible *and* useful. I was simply telling you *how* to use it and *how* to read it for the relevant information so that you could remedy your incomprehension. Apparently you're not interested in that and more interested in just criticizing him for forgivably bad formatting (he's drawing info from Excel or Googledocs and that's notoriously difficult to put into a forum friendly format without a lot of extra work).
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rphebus's Avatar


rphebus
12.07.2012 , 01:22 AM | #7
Good write up. I can confirm that for at least PTs the info is correct since ive done the math on them and got the same results.

The one thing that i did was also compare the value of endurance vs defensive stats once you get into that 1700 and 1800 bracket. Even with the DR getting that high on my shield and absorb, it still beats endurance in the 1700 range but by the time you're getting into the high 1800s it becomes more debatable.

I am in no way saying that endurance stacking becomes viable, but i have swapped out a few mods for the lettered ones with higher stam.

As tanks, we only have maybe 1 more tier of gear before we'll be looking at endurance more and more from hitting the higher DR ranges on some of our stats. By then we'll need an xpac like wow does to "reset" our stats.
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KeyboardNinja
12.07.2012 , 01:50 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by rphebus View Post
The one thing that i did was also compare the value of endurance vs defensive stats once you get into that 1700 and 1800 bracket. Even with the DR getting that high on my shield and absorb, it still beats endurance in the 1700 range but by the time you're getting into the high 1800s it becomes more debatable.
Given that Endurance doesn't actually affect survivability for a powertech, I'd be curious to see on what grounds you were comparing them. If your goal is to minimize healing required, endurance will never be the best stat for a powertech, since it only serves to provide a buffer. This is distinct from a shadow/assassin, where stacking endurance actually increases survivability (decreases healing required) due to the self-heal mechanic.
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Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

rphebus's Avatar


rphebus
12.07.2012 , 02:37 AM | #9
I was assigning an actual stat weight for endurance for a while but in the end i just went with my experience in mmos and some common sense . Since i duel-main healer/tank in every mmo, i have a pretty good feel for dealing with some of the intangibles that's hard to model. I can post some of my old notes where i tried to give endurance a defined value later.

If you compare 2% shield rating to 2k hp, shield will always win. But if you take 1900 total stats, which breaks down to D:435 S:817 A:647, your shield rating is so high that you can trade part of that for endurance by using a lettered mod or other means. Now you're looking at a ratio of stat loss to endurance gain that can give you some options when you look at the different boss fights. For a fight like nim kephess, im willing to trade a little more mitigation for endurance since kephess at 100-60% is the most healing intensive for us and i want to give our healers a little more wiggle room.

Again, i am in no way saying stack endurance, just that those lettered mods become more attractive as you work your way up the total stat list.
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Kitru
12.07.2012 , 11:33 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by rphebus View Post
Again, i am in no way saying stack endurance, just that those lettered mods become more attractive as you work your way up the total stat list.
The lettered mods trade Absorb/Defense for Endurance, not Shield. Shield only exists on enhancements, so you are choosing to use the high Endurance enhs rather than the high Shield enhs to trade Shield for Endurance.
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