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Needs harder content


Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
12.05.2012 , 02:21 AM | #11
Challenge-wise it's going in the right direction. EC NM is the hardest content so far, so hopefully TFB NM will be even harder. Hopefully nobody will clear it the first day, and 12h/day raiding is required to clear it the first week.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.05.2012 , 06:30 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Laagee View Post
There is no hard ops and there never has been. I remember being in a group for an mmo and spending 4 hours on a boss and it taking up to a month to clear it. If you are in a endgame pve guild in this game you can have it cleared within a week and on farm shortly after. This is not really a challenge to me. Just my thoughts and maybe I am alone with those thoughts. As for people getting there gear through the coms I just think it would be nice to see how good a player is through there gear. Right now you have no idea what a person has accomplished becuase anyone can get the gear through dailys.

As for being a bioware game, this is my first one so I really do not have anything to compare it to. I do know I really enjoyed World of War crafts pvp (Like AV and wintergrasp where we would fight to conquer to gain access to the instance) It just seemed more challenging then what swtor has to offer right now thats all.
Stop making generalizations about the supposed simplicity of the raids. Maybe they are simple for you but not to a huge majority of the player base. There are about 10 maybe slightly more guilds who have reported full kills in EC NiM 8 man, and in 16 Man there hasn't been a reported Kephess kil on NiM yet. A lot of people take quite long in the current operations and even some flashpoints. Also, It will take a very long time for anyone to get full 63 through Blake Hole comms only. Some 63 grade items still do not have anyone that can craft them yet and it's gonna take a few months for even a hardcore player to get full 63 through sheer comm farming.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
12.05.2012 , 09:07 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Laagee View Post
I know it is hard to please everyone, but it would be nice to have some content that we do not fully clear within a month of opening it. Also it would be nice to only be able to get gear through the new operations as really anyone can just farm the black hole coms and upgrade there gear now which makes the operations almost pointless. Another thing is the movies are REALLY annyoying now. It would be nice to be able to skip the movies altogether. People that have been here since the begining really hate them now and there are a lot of new players that will sit there and watch the movie. Can we not disable the movies for at least the first flash points released.

PVP ugh.... enough said there. I have never pvp'ed in star wars because it is kinda lame. I miss world of warcraft pvp...wish you guys would bring more of there concept into the game.

Now for the people that will say just and play world of warcraft and blah blah blah....I like star wars and I want the game to improve. After the last post from Jeff Hickman he is right. If they do not know they wont fix it.

So to sum it up....
better ops, pvp and a xmas gift for me is a legacy bank
Whilst there may be no raids in the game that are considered difficult for hardcore guilds full of good players, most raids still present a significant challenge to the average raider, and most of the raids are too difficult for the average player. Just consider completion rates for EC HM / NiM and TFB HM: not many people have done them at all, let alone farmed them.

For my personal skill level, this game's ops are perfectly balanced. My guild is currently working on final boss in TFB HM. We have a range of skill levels in guild, most of our raiders aren't good enough for the hardmodes but some of us are. So, the best raiders are working on TFB HM, the average raiders are farming storymodes / ev nim / kp nim in an effort to gear up and get better at raiding.

As for gear acquisition, im also happy with the way it is. Whilst it seems fast compared to other MMOs (because it is..) I'm very happy with that! I hate farming raids for months on end to complete gear sets. I agree that there needs to be something more that indicates your ability to clear the raid (possibly better titles, vehicles, cosmetic gear sets, pets, whatever) but forcing us to farm something for months on end isn't fun, its just a crutch for developers to keep us in game. I'd rather the devs developed something more entertaining to do at endgame in pve.


On the pvp front, my experience is that it has some of the best class balance of any MMO (yeh, not perfect, but better than most) but its just flat out boring and repetitive. Warzones are at least balanced on numbers, but theres only 4 of them so they get old quickly and its easy to get unbalanced in terms of player skill and class balance. This game *needs* open world pvp with some sort of structure. Even the Ettenmoors in LOTRO is more entertaining and more epic than TOR pvp!
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
12.05.2012 , 09:24 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by kanare View Post
you are not doing 16 man hard mode means u aint doing the hardest content ............last boss is not cleared yet by any guild and there are some of the most hard core guilds in swtor who raided longer hours then any other guilds doing it ............so if u opt to do 8 man you are missing the hardest content may be it is time to look for a 16 man guild who is doing that content ..............btw 16 man guilds have done the 8 man content its a joke compaired to 16 man ..... bioware has made harder content its not there fult u are not partisipating in it .............. there are plenty of 16 man guilds out there look for 1 and failing that come to TFN and level a char if u are that good we will gear u ........ and we will see how quickly and easy u find it 1900 dps from every 1 in the raid group to kill tanks ...... compaired to 8 man where u needed 1600 big step up .........
offtopic rant:
Not that I agree with OP, he's full of needless crap that this game does not need, but you are exagerrating here ... a lot. Last boss in TFB HM, Tanks NiM, and Kephess NiM are the only bosses that are significantly harder on 16, everything else is either on the same difficulty level or even below it. And FYI, there is ONE 16 man guild doing EC NiM on Tomb of Freedon Nadd (PvP English), and it's Republic, there are NO 16m guilds on the Empire side, and I'm pretty sure there are significantly less 16m guilds here than there are 8, for obvious reasons. In my case, wanting to go to a 16m guild is not because I don't want a challenge, but because that possibility for me does not exist, unless you think rerolling a new character on a new server after 64 days of played time is a wise choice. So, please, spare me the speech about "there are plenty of 16m guilds out there". Want to know why 16m EC NiM is actually more difficult? Because of lack of testing, plain and simple. In fact, this week Tanks have been nerfed for 16m. And Bioware's intention is not to make 16m more difficult, but EASIER ... the reason why we're seeing Kephess NiM with his 3 warriors at 79k hp and his Trenchcutters gutting tanks left and right is because BW is incompetent, at least until they get their **** together and allow proper char transfers on PTS.

ontopic:
TFB HM and EC NiM offer enough of a challenge when it comes to pure raiding, and I'm pretty sure TFB NiM will be just as challenging, this game needs more Bioware finesse in story and continuation of our beloved class chapters. Seriously, they've added more raids than flashpoints since launch, and FPs are inherently more story-centric ... It's not even worth discussion at this point. If you want greater PvE challenges, by all means, go to MoP, it is absolutely foolish to expect Bioware to provide better and harder PvE raiding environment in their first year compared to WoW's 8-year focus on endgame raiding. If you came to this game looking for ultimate challenges in PvE and PvP, you missed the point, it's as simple as that.

DarthSeraph's Avatar


DarthSeraph
12.05.2012 , 09:41 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Laagee View Post
Another thing is the movies are REALLY annyoying now. It would be nice to be able to skip the movies altogether. People that have been here since the begining really hate them now and there are a lot of new players that will sit there and watch the movie. Can we not disable the movies for at least the first flash points released.
This is already available to do. It is somewhere in preferences (not sure where exactly) but shows as Skip Movies
Destruˇ | Castellˇ | Spaa'ra
Marauder | Sentinel | Gunslinger


DarkhorseForLife's Avatar


DarkhorseForLife
12.05.2012 , 09:56 AM | #16
You are complaining about there being no hard content in the game, yet 1.5 has been out almost a month and there are still 0 kills of Kephess on 16m NiM. Now granted, I think this is because it's insanely overtuned (compared to 8m in any case) but you can't really complain that all the raid content is too easy when there is stuff out there that has not been defeated.
Moxboss, Founder of now defunct <Memories of Xendor> on POT5
Darkhorse, Shadowcolt, Blacksteed, Duskfilly
Dimstallion, Shadepony, Luridfoal, Murkgelding
Check out MoX Parser! Real time raid meters and parsing!

DarkhorseForLife's Avatar


DarkhorseForLife
12.05.2012 , 10:01 AM | #17
Also I haven't seen anyone reporting a 5 stack Dreadtooth kill yet. Lord knows we've tried but it's very difficult on a PvP server to get more than 2 or 3 quality attempts in before getting swarmed. So that remains available for a kill.
Moxboss, Founder of now defunct <Memories of Xendor> on POT5
Darkhorse, Shadowcolt, Blacksteed, Duskfilly
Dimstallion, Shadepony, Luridfoal, Murkgelding
Check out MoX Parser! Real time raid meters and parsing!

_gideon's Avatar


_gideon
12.05.2012 , 10:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
offtopic rant:
Not that I agree with OP, he's full of needless crap that this game does not need, but you are exagerrating here ... a lot. Last boss in TFB HM, Tanks NiM, and Kephess NiM are the only bosses that are significantly harder on 16, everything else is either on the same difficulty level or even below it. And FYI, there is ONE 16 man guild doing EC NiM on Tomb of Freedon Nadd (PvP English), and it's Republic, there are NO 16m guilds on the Empire side, and I'm pretty sure there are significantly less 16m guilds here than there are 8, for obvious reasons. In my case, wanting to go to a 16m guild is not because I don't want a challenge, but because that possibility for me does not exist, unless you think rerolling a new character on a new server after 64 days of played time is a wise choice. So, please, spare me the speech about "there are plenty of 16m guilds out there". Want to know why 16m EC NiM is actually more difficult? Because of lack of testing, plain and simple. In fact, this week Tanks have been nerfed for 16m. And Bioware's intention is not to make 16m more difficult, but EASIER ... the reason why we're seeing Kephess NiM with his 3 warriors at 79k hp and his Trenchcutters gutting tanks left and right is because BW is incompetent, at least until they get their **** together and allow proper char transfers on PTS.
Want to know something ironic? You just quoted the raid leader of that Republic 16-man progression guild on ToFN.

You sound to me like someone who wants to raid at that level, or at least to see for themselves. I think I know Kanre well enough to make you this offer: level a Republic toon and ask to join. He will take you seriously. The guild has nearly every recipe so they will handle the gear if you bring the skill and commitment. Rerolling sucks but at least it will be an alt on the same legacy.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
12.05.2012 , 10:53 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Laagee View Post
PVP ugh.... enough said there. I have never pvp'ed in star wars because it is kinda lame. I miss world of warcraft pvp...wish you guys would bring more of there concept into the game.
You want a wow game, go play wow. This is Star Wars, and there is canon set up they can't break.

Sydexlic's Avatar


Sydexlic
12.06.2012 , 07:59 AM | #20
I agree with the OP. I've played MMOs for over a decade now, started in Everquest and played from WoW launch until I finally grew tired of it after killing HM Deathwing in Cataclysm. Everquest was some of the most fun I've had whilst raiding in an MMO. 72 man raids, extremely difficult and challenging encounters on an epic scale. I've done 40 man raids in WoW, I cleared the original Naxxramas in 40 man and I was in a top 50 in the world guild through all of TBC and most of WotLK.

I loved the WoW model of doing PvE, especially in TBC and to a lesser extent WotLK. It was HARD, very hard. You had to be dedicated and highly skilled to beat this stuff, even then it was a process of gradual refinements of strategy and play of 1% here and 1% there that finally gave you the edge to beat the fight, often after weeks or even months of attempts. My guild worked for weeks to beat Kil'Jaeden and M'uru, 100+ attempts on both of them. We loved every second of it too. We were fine when the encounters were subsequently nerfed too, I accept that not everyone has the ability, commitment or just patience to devote that much effort to beating an operations encounter.

I was hoping to see this level of challenge for TFB, we were disappointed. Everything was a 1 shot or a 2 shot, with only TFB itself giving us any real resistance. The only reason it took a 2nd night of attempts was due to one of our tanks having flaky net and us calling it due to that.

I was hoping EC NM would eclipse the challenge for TFB, it did...sort of. We took maybe 4 or 5 attempts to down ZnT, tanks not many more and we 1 shot Vorgath (well done tuning that one EAware). Again, only Kephess gave any real resistance, but we still downed him in the first week.

Granted, we're a strong group of players and we did clear the place 2nd in the world in 8m, but ... we really would love to sink our teeth into a meatier challenge. Even if you have to tune it down in the weeks after to make it more accessible, not everyone is going to be challenged by this luke warm content you're putting out there right now.