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Just how Powerful what Nihilus?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Just how Powerful what Nihilus?

Abbyssion's Avatar


Abbyssion
12.05.2012 , 08:03 PM | #1
I was reading over the lore of the sith emperor and read how he had to do a whole ritual to absorb the strength of sith lords to make himself the all powerful sith emperor we know of in the game, But isn't this just the same thing Darth Nihilus did but without the whole ritual?

Couldn't Nihilus had just cruised around space in the ravager eating Jedi faces and become the most powerful thing to exist? making the skywalkers look like ants before him?

EDIT: omg totally derped the title...

BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
12.05.2012 , 08:15 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Abbyssion View Post
I was reading over the lore of the sith emperor and read how he had to do a whole ritual to absorb the strength of sith lords to make himself the all powerful sith emperor we know of in the game, But isn't this just the same thing Darth Nihilus did but without the whole ritual?

Couldn't Nihilus had just cruised around space in the ravager eating Jedi faces and become the most powerful thing to exist? making the skywalkers look like ants before him?

EDIT: omg totally derped the title...
Pretty much. Karpyshyn completely ignored the lore around Nihilus, so it's hard to compare the powers of those two. Nihilus gained his power by accident when he survived Malachor V, though.
He was incredibly powerful, but that power was in its own way a weakness, because the scale of his attention (to planets full of beings) allowed a small group to escape his notice enough to sneak attack him. If the Exile and her companions hadn't stopped him, he would have gone on to drain the life out of the galaxy in the end.
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Scathe's Avatar


Scathe
12.05.2012 , 09:29 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by BradTheImpaler View Post
Pretty much. Karpyshyn completely ignored the lore around Nihilus, so it's hard to compare the powers of those two. Nihilus gained his power by accident when he survived Malachor V, though.
He was incredibly powerful, but that power was in its own way a weakness, because the scale of his attention (to planets full of beings) allowed a small group to escape his notice enough to sneak attack him. If the Exile and her companions hadn't stopped him, he would have gone on to drain the life out of the galaxy in the end.
Couple things. The first isn't just about Karpyshyn ignoring the lore, since after Bane I don't really take much of what he writes as Canon, Bioware did the same thing. If you watch the Histories that they did again, they kind of go out of their way to completely ignore most of KotOR 2 like it never happened. Kreia's lore regarding Revan and all that doesn't seem to be mentioned, the eradication of Malachor V due to the Mass Shadow Generator, the second Civil War. It's just not there. They seem to have only really kept The Exile and given her a name. Talking with my friend about Meetra after the Revan book came out, we both had the same conclusion: Meetra didn't feel like the Exile from the game. They also played around a bit with Naga Sadow's history from the original Tales of the Jedi comics.

The second is about Nihilus' power. It wasn't just his tunnel vision on a planet that was his weakness, it was his need to consume that was his ultimate downfall. Kreia says that he is a wound in the Force, much like the Exile is, only this wound consumes and destroys endlessly. He is Lord of Hunger for a reason, he needs to feast on the Force and the beings of the Galaxy. In the end, he would have consumed all life and then starved to death, eating away at his own essence until he was nothing. This is evidenced by Katarr, he consumed the entire planet, with the exception of Visas.
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LegendaryBlade's Avatar


LegendaryBlade
12.05.2012 , 10:05 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Scathe View Post
Couple things. The first isn't just about Karpyshyn ignoring the lore, since after Bane I don't really take much of what he writes as Canon, Bioware did the same thing. If you watch the Histories that they did again, they kind of go out of their way to completely ignore most of KotOR 2 like it never happened. Kreia's lore regarding Revan and all that doesn't seem to be mentioned, the eradication of Malachor V due to the Mass Shadow Generator, the second Civil War. It's just not there. They seem to have only really kept The Exile and given her a name. Talking with my friend about Meetra after the Revan book came out, we both had the same conclusion: Meetra didn't feel like the Exile from the game. They also played around a bit with Naga Sadow's history from the original Tales of the Jedi comics.

The second is about Nihilus' power. It wasn't just his tunnel vision on a planet that was his weakness, it was his need to consume that was his ultimate downfall. Kreia says that he is a wound in the Force, much like the Exile is, only this wound consumes and destroys endlessly. He is Lord of Hunger for a reason, he needs to feast on the Force and the beings of the Galaxy. In the end, he would have consumed all life and then starved to death, eating away at his own essence until he was nothing. This is evidenced by Katarr, he consumed the entire planet, with the exception of Visas.
Ignoring KOTOR IIs lore was most likely intentional. Bioware didn't make KOTOR II and it seems like they go out of their way to avoid acknowledging it. Notice how much more emphasis they put on the first KOTOR which, while it was an amazing game, was not nearly as popular as KOTOR II? They didn't write KOTOR II so they want nothing to do with it. That's it in a nutshell, and it's pathetic.

It isn't just something they should of skimmed over, considering she rebuilt the jedi counsel.

I also agree that the Meetra we got in game doesn't feel like the Exile at all. I don't even remember having the option to act all psuedo mystical ******** in KOTOR II, let alone every line she said. Also they put way too much effort in to basically making her Revan's *****.
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.05.2012 , 10:13 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryBlade View Post
Ignoring KOTOR IIs lore was most likely intentional. Bioware didn't make KOTOR II and it seems like they go out of their way to avoid acknowledging it. Notice how much more emphasis they put on the first KOTOR which, while it was an amazing game, was not nearly as popular as KOTOR II? They didn't write KOTOR II so they want nothing to do with it. That's it in a nutshell, and it's pathetic.

It isn't just something they should of skimmed over, considering she rebuilt the jedi counsel.

I also agree that the Meetra we got in game doesn't feel like the Exile at all. I don't even remember having the option to act all psuedo mystical ******** in KOTOR II, let alone every line she said. Also they put way too much effort in to basically making her Revan's *****.
Couldn't agree more. KOTOR II may as well be N-canon as far as Bioware and Drew are concerned. What happened to the Exile was undeserved, imo.

As to the topic at hand. Nihilus' hunger had dominated his mind. His only thought was the next meal. This was his downfall. In reality, if Kreia hadn't been so conniving, Nihilus would have destroyed the galaxy.
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BradTheImpaler's Avatar


BradTheImpaler
12.05.2012 , 10:34 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Scathe View Post
Couple things. The first isn't just about Karpyshyn ignoring the lore, since after Bane I don't really take much of what he writes as Canon, Bioware did the same thing. If you watch the Histories that they did again, they kind of go out of their way to completely ignore most of KotOR 2 like it never happened. Kreia's lore regarding Revan and all that doesn't seem to be mentioned, the eradication of Malachor V due to the Mass Shadow Generator, the second Civil War. It's just not there. They seem to have only really kept The Exile and given her a name. Talking with my friend about Meetra after the Revan book came out, we both had the same conclusion: Meetra didn't feel like the Exile from the game. They also played around a bit with Naga Sadow's history from the original Tales of the Jedi comics.

The second is about Nihilus' power. It wasn't just his tunnel vision on a planet that was his weakness, it was his need to consume that was his ultimate downfall. Kreia says that he is a wound in the Force, much like the Exile is, only this wound consumes and destroys endlessly. He is Lord of Hunger for a reason, he needs to feast on the Force and the beings of the Galaxy. In the end, he would have consumed all life and then starved to death, eating away at his own essence until he was nothing. This is evidenced by Katarr, he consumed the entire planet, with the exception of Visas.
I mentioned his ignoring the lore about Nihilus specifically because that's what the OP was asking about, but anyway, you made good points.
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OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
12.05.2012 , 10:42 PM | #7
In terms of strictly popularity I think the first Kotor game is greater than the second. That said I do wish we got more Kotor 2 references. I wasn't happy with what they did with Revan and less so with the Exile. Even if they were restricted to the voice actors they had back in TOR, they could have shown us some more of Handmaiden, Disciple, Jolee or Juhani in addition to Bastila.

Secondly, Nihilus is similar to the Emperor, but there are key differences. He's sort of like a much more extreme version of him. Nihilus doesn't become more powerful by eating worlds, he simply uses them to feed his hunger. Everything including himself is consumed by the Hunger. In that sense, he's IMO better character because even though he's more overpowered, he seems to have paid a greater price for it. I'm not sure if this is the case for the Emperor too, but Nihilus is specifically drawn to force users, they are what are the most nourishing to him. He appeared on Katarr because the Jedi Conclave had gathered there, not because of the rest of the Miraluka population living there, even though he consumed them all together. I always suspected that he was a living weapon orchestrated by the True Sith Empire against the weakened Jedi back when playing Kotor 2, because he was a perfect instrument to weaken or destroy the Jedi by his actions alone.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.05.2012 , 11:20 PM | #8
Both have pros and cons

Sith Emperor:
Can consume a planet but needed to set up a ritual first (con)
Consumed the planet more thoroughly than even Nihilius according to Revan novel (pro?)
Does not need to keep eating to stay alive (PRO)

Nihilius:
Can strip planets bare with a single word (PRO)
Will die when he runs out of force users to eat (CON)

So basically,
Nihilius seems to have bigger feats than the Emperor (kept a ship together, destroyer a planet sans ritual) but he also wasn't as immortal - once he stopped eating others, he started eating himself. The Emperor however, is more immortal than Nihilius since he doesn't need to keep eating to survive.
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mefit
12.05.2012 , 11:42 PM | #9
Nihilus would eat Emperor Vitiate's face .................my opinion , and I do not care ..........Nihilus > Vitiate !
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LordCJK's Avatar


LordCJK
12.06.2012 , 01:21 AM | #10
He was very powerful, it's about 10th place in me top list...
But i have many thoughts about him. Well, first of all, i want to say that all this is only my point of view, so it isn't confirmed by canon but isn't refuted by it too.
Meetra Surik defeated Lord Nihilus because of her force wound, right. But almost all force abilities have their counteractions. As for force lightning, first time it seemed to be unstoppable, but we can see it can be blocked even with hands by powerful force users. I believe Nihilus force drain is overwhelmingly powerful, but it still can be resisted by powerful force users(but without wounds in the force) like from top 10 guys. So as for Lord Vitiate in this topic, he will just resist Nihilus' power and defeat him, he's almost equal to Sidious.