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How much Accuracy are u loading for a Sin Tank

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
How much Accuracy are u loading for a Sin Tank

Rynis's Avatar


Rynis
12.03.2012 , 02:11 PM | #11
Like some have said, you should have ZERO accuracy on a assassin tank. If you have trouble holding aggro and feel the need to have accuracy you're doing something wrong, simple as that.
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floriwie's Avatar


floriwie
12.04.2012 , 12:30 AM | #12
Is 0 accuracy isn't little bit exaggerated...

The reason I asked about accuracy, I was reading my combat logs and I read that a boss dodged 3 of my assassinates during the burn phase which I think should hurt, it is one of our cheapest big hitters....

If u have goodly DPSes which are all parsing 2000 on the dummy this might not be so important but my guild is not in this league and they need my DPS also...

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
12.04.2012 , 10:47 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by floriwie View Post
Is 0 accuracy isn't little bit exaggerated...

The reason I asked about accuracy, I was reading my combat logs and I read that a boss dodged 3 of my assassinates during the burn phase which I think should hurt, it is one of our cheapest big hitters....

If u have goodly DPSes which are all parsing 2000 on the dummy this might not be so important but my guild is not in this league and they need my DPS also...
Adding accuracy makes very, very little difference in your DPS. As an example, my Assassinate hits for a little over 2k (3k if it crits), which is an average damage of 2285.6. It's a special attack, so has an extra 5% accuracy, and I have a bonus 1% accuracy from legacy companions. So, it will miss, on average, 4% of the time. Let's assume a static 360 second fight. Of that fight, 108 seconds will see the boss below 30%. Assassinate has a cooldown of 6 seconds, but in practice, you can't use it that often. Since the proc'd channel is more valuable (both in terms of damage and in terms of healing), you generally use assassinate twice per channel, which comes once every 15 seconds (when you have to wait for force regen due to assassinate usage). Thus, the frequency of Assassinate is 2/15 = 0.133/sec, or 14.4 total assassinates per boss. At a 4% miss rate, we will see an average of 0.576 assassinate misses per fight. That's a damage loss of 1316.51, which comes out to 3.66 DPS.

Even if your group is having issues meeting enrage timers, an extra 4 DPS is not going to help in the slightest. You will literally pick up more DPS by simply allowing your healers the opportunity to throw in a cheap attack now and again, and you can accomplish that goal by stacking mitigation over accuracy. Thus, I would argue that stacking accuracy *reduces* your group's overall DPS.
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verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
12.04.2012 , 11:54 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
Not much if any at all. My Sin Tank sits at

65 Shield Chance w/ dark ward
60 Absorb
and 29.** Defense

As a sin tank your rotation is pretty much shock, wither, discharge,auto attack(or trash is you have more than 70 force) shock, force lighting.. over and over again only 1 of your attacks(2 if you use trash, 3 is assassinate) use accuracy. Your safe dumping just about all of it.

Just slight note, you should be using thrash more than that, to proc energize or gt shock off cd.

Basic rotation is : shock->wither->discharge->thrash up to x2->shock->FL

Even if you have to fill in a saber strike after proccing energize, you'll still gain dps and proc your melee crit bonus if specced 31/0/10.

Sin doesn't suffer from degenerating ressource generation.


As far as accuracy goes, looking at previous rotation, accuracy is not worth it. I'm still using level 49 mods of shield/absorb on my rakata/BH geared tank-sin in the rakata pieces since the stats on them is endurance and accuracy first. BH mods are fixing that slowly tough.

Also why did someone put strenght in the stats priority list? Even placed at "low" or even the bottom of it, it means using a mod or armoring for warrior, and it should NEVER happens.

floriwie's Avatar


floriwie
12.05.2012 , 03:04 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Adding accuracy makes very, very little difference in your DPS. As an example, my Assassinate hits for a little over 2k (3k if it crits), which is an average damage of 2285.6. It's a special attack, so has an extra 5% accuracy, and I have a bonus 1% accuracy from legacy companions. So, it will miss, on average, 4% of the time. Let's assume a static 360 second fight. Of that fight, 108 seconds will see the boss below 30%. Assassinate has a cooldown of 6 seconds, but in practice, you can't use it that often. Since the proc'd channel is more valuable (both in terms of damage and in terms of healing), you generally use assassinate twice per channel, which comes once every 15 seconds (when you have to wait for force regen due to assassinate usage). Thus, the frequency of Assassinate is 2/15 = 0.133/sec, or 14.4 total assassinates per boss. At a 4% miss rate, we will see an average of 0.576 assassinate misses per fight. That's a damage loss of 1316.51, which comes out to 3.66 DPS.

Even if your group is having issues meeting enrage timers, an extra 4 DPS is not going to help in the slightest. You will literally pick up more DPS by simply allowing your healers the opportunity to throw in a cheap attack now and again, and you can accomplish that goal by stacking mitigation over accuracy. Thus, I would argue that stacking accuracy *reduces* your group's overall DPS.
Normally that would be my logic also but in this combat log the gods of statistic betrayed me and I got 3 sequential misses and that I had started questioning my logic...

To say the truth, I am full blackhole / Campaign mix but my health is aroung 26K I am not believer of 27K+ setup, I stack quite a lot willpower and I can say until now I never loost aggro to a DPS (even to above 2000+ parsers...), I find it no so optimal that the DPS has to slow down because I can generate enough aggro, so my Assinnate hits little bit harder then 2200 average....and one point u are missing, the doom of Sin Tank, it is hard to stick 15s FL HD rotation, for ex, red circle phase in Toth&Zorn , it is really tough to time a full cast of FL there, in that phase I stick more to the Assassinate...

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
12.05.2012 , 03:43 AM | #16
Use 0 accuracy

Griad's Avatar


Griad
12.05.2012 , 04:25 AM | #17
I use 0% bonus acr, and prefer getting defensive stats, our main rotation is wither, discharge, shock, trash (sometimes) or just saber strike, and FL when you have 3 stacks of HD. which means that our main agro build is force which never miss. So for PVE nothing at all.
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Nuzzar's Avatar


Nuzzar
12.05.2012 , 12:36 PM | #18
zero

sankalp's Avatar


sankalp
12.05.2012 , 06:45 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Noxxic's info for shadow/assassin tanks is really, really bad. Their stat priority, for example, is completely wrong. More points in accuracy have a tiny, tiny contribution to tanking assassin DPS, due to the dominance of force attacks in our rotation. Best in Slot is the 91% accuracy that you get from maxing your melee tank. No one, not even DPS classes, should have 110% melee/ranged accuracy. Nothing over 100% matters in PvE, despite what Bioware's tooltips claim.

Here is the correct stat priority for assassin tanks moving into the Dread Guard tier:

Absorption (60%) >= Defense (30%) > Shield (65%) >= Endurance (27k) >>> Willpower > Power >>> Strength > Accuracy

Regarding endurance, once your mitigation is at this point, diminishing returns starts to hit really really hard. That, combined with the very high HPS of the low-thrash rotation means that endurance is very nearly a better stat than the mitigation stats, in terms of survivability contribution. Due to itemization quirks, high-endurance mods have a higher stat budget than low-endurance mods (thus, you're trading 1 point of mitigation for about 1.7 points of endurance). Because of this, all of your Dread Guard mods should be high-endurance (the 27B variants), while your enhancements should be low-endurance (Bastion and Bulwark).
I dont know if I am understanding this wrong or whatever, but to me it looks like you are saying once you have hit 30/45/60 putting points in end and keeping the same def/shield/abs is going to be more beneficial.

I believer still stacking def/shield/absorb after 30/45/60 is better and any extra end you get(going from 61 to 63 for eg) is bonus. So I would still look at mods/enhancement which give me more mitigation stats as when I got from robust 26 to robust 27 I get more abs+ more end but I will not go from 26 to 27B in order to get more end.

correct me if I am wrong

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
12.06.2012 , 02:19 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by sankalp View Post
I dont know if I am understanding this wrong or whatever, but to me it looks like you are saying once you have hit 30/45/60 putting points in end and keeping the same def/shield/abs is going to be more beneficial.
That is what he's saying.

Self-healing is a non-trivial part of our overall survivability, and the only method of improving self-healing is increasing HP pool.

Once far enough into the DR curves, improving self-healing will do more to improve survivability than will simply adding more mitigation. 30/45/60 (in round numbers) is about where that occurs.

Regardless, the effective difference is minute, and KN's suggestions are predicated on the idea that you are gathering and spending Harnessed Darkness stacks as quickly as possible. If you are not good at maximizing your HD gain/spend, and/or you just don't give a hoot (which, let's be honest, many tanks, even serious raid tanks, don't), you're not going to be shockingly more squishy by stacking additional mitigation.

But hey, with the way mitigation and gearing are implemented in this game, it's all hairsplitting to begin with. Fight knowledge, situational awareness, reaction times (coupled with the right reactions!), the quality of the people around you, and sometimes just sheer luck are drastically more important than min/maxed gear. That said, min/maxing your gear never hurts.

Edit: KN is wrong about one thing, however, in that Assassinate has a 10% boost to Accuracy (due to the isSpecial flag). This does nothing to improve the value of Accuracy rating however.