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[Guide] Mad Maul 1.4


Nuzzar's Avatar


Nuzzar
12.05.2012 , 12:30 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Dierdrea View Post
That being said: While it is great to be able to thrash non stop, one thing I noticed while practicing mad maul is that when I am using blackout and force cloak I am storing a lot of force. Sure there is no danger of going into starvation but the GCD limits me from doing anymore.
Hi Dierdrea, how is it going?

I would say without having thought so much about the why, this might very well be the reason you wont come ahead. I tried both: Using the regg stuff instant when its up (ofc no blackout right after vanish) to squeeze as much uses as possible - which pushed me to max force sometimes (i wont get even close when full madness). And trying to use it when i get low on force and would have to SS - which wont give you the most out of the talent.

Still not sure how you manage to outperform full madness, but i hope your logs will provide some insight.

Dierdrea's Avatar


Dierdrea
12.05.2012 , 04:35 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuzzar View Post
Hi Dierdrea, how is it going?

I would say without having thought so much about the why, this might very well be the reason you wont come ahead. I tried both: Using the regg stuff instant when its up (ofc no blackout right after vanish) to squeeze as much uses as possible - which pushed me to max force sometimes (i wont get even close when full madness). And trying to use it when i get low on force and would have to SS - which wont give you the most out of the talent.

Still not sure how you manage to outperform full madness, but i hope your logs will provide some insight.
I didn't, mad maul came pretty close but I can't manage to pass full madness, I think I said that in my post before. It is still very viable and is much friendlier to play. The only thing I was wondering about is if execute phases will be smoother. I didn't post logs because your logs pretty much summed it up nicely.

Nuzzar's Avatar


Nuzzar
12.05.2012 , 05:40 PM | #33
That last sentence was for OP - sry for the confusion ;p

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
12.07.2012 , 04:16 PM | #34
@ Talon, There hasn't been any changes so yes it is very viable for 1.5

@ Dierdrea and Nuzzar, I have tried many times to get some descent parse data for you guys. There is nothing I want more than to prove to the community of my claims that Mad Maul is best overall dps. I currently use MoniTOR to parse my data and have not yet figured out how to get the data posted to a third party site. As far as MOX goes I cannot install this program because my computer will no longer update latest versions of .netframwork. Too many por n searches I guess. I have tried everything I could think of to get .netframwork updated but my pc will not even update through "automatic updates". I even tried recording some fraps with my dps overlay on but it did not work.

I do not know the exact reasons why I am able to parse higher numbers with Mad Maul than I am with Madness, I guess I am the only one. All I know is that when I tried it initially I was 200dps behind Madness, After a few days of playing the Mad Maul spec I then started parsing 100-150 dps ahead. I do know that during 1.2 and 1.3 many full Madness Assassins where doing more dps when they took Creeping Terror and Shock out of their rotations, because of how Thrash scaled. Maybe for a full BiS Assassin numbers will vary relatively, as I am not close to BiS than maybe abilities are scaling differently, idk. It could just be that Mad Maul is technically an easier rotation to keep because of one less dot and I am just able to run it more efficiently. Maybe with Mad Maul I am refreshing Discharge and Deathmarks with less clipping and down time, maybe I am just able to react to Exploit Weakness and Raze alot faster. IDK.

@ Plaga, just stop posting bro, every time you type you just prove to everyone how little you actually understand about this class. You need to download MoniTOR or MoX and start parsing your own data and not just post tooltip data.

iesnbold's Avatar


iesnbold
12.08.2012 , 10:15 AM | #35
Parsing 1650ish in MM vs 1800ish in full Madness for now, it's possible that in raid environment with armor debuff the gap closes a bit, but I'm very skeptical about MM outdps'ing Madness in a 5-10min timeframe. Will continue to try though.

I would not say it's easier than Madness however, 1 more dot is not hard to track since both of CT and discharge have the same CD, but MM it involves actual decision-making on how to time your blackouts/vanish given your current force, even to take the best advantage of your incoming offensive CDs (adrenals, relics), which I find interesting whereas Madness you're doing the same 20sec loop all the fight.

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
12.09.2012 , 12:20 AM | #36
There's no situation where the dark embrace regen out speeds the cost of spamming maul, which is our second biggest hitter (behind assassinate). Basically, if you have a full force bar when embrace is up just use a maul or two or six. with the proc i think it's higher (don't quote me on that I can't remember for sure). A lot of people won't maul without the roc and that's just a waste.

In any case though, spamming maul will increase your dps and take care of your "too much force" problems.

iesnbold's Avatar


iesnbold
12.09.2012 , 08:16 AM | #37
Ironically, for PVE, of all the Madness-based hybrids that I tried, MM is the weakest. These 3 pts used to get 30% crit damage on maul are just best put somewhere else. Tried 2/11/28 with Thrashing blades and 3/3 Creeping death and it wins by a pretty good margin. Now, Darkswell is just awesome, it costs a lot of skill points to get it tho, since the tier2 deception skills and insulation are just plain useless dps-wise.

So i agree with one of your statement Xethis, CT is kind of a weak dot and Darkswell is damn useful, but I don't think Induction is worth getting in PVE. Darskwell + UK must be insanely good for burn/execute phase, so I'm willing to try it out in raids, but the only fight I would consider getting Induction is Kephess the Undying because you only have 3GCD to burst.

Dierdrea's Avatar


Dierdrea
12.09.2012 , 05:28 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by iesnbold View Post
Parsing 1650ish in MM vs 1800ish in full Madness for now,
Considering Razz is only off by 60 dps when he parse and you parse significantly lower, maybe you need to practice mm a bit before saying it is just bad compared to everything else you tried...

iesnbold's Avatar


iesnbold
12.10.2012 , 06:27 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Dierdrea View Post
Considering Razz is only off by 60 dps when he parse and you parse significantly lower, maybe you need to practice mm a bit before saying it is just bad compared to everything else you tried...
Considering I'm nowhere near BiS I think Razz should have parsed even higher compared to me in full madness. I was using EWH MH LOL. It is true I am not as fluent with MM as I am in Madness, but I think Razz's madness parse is not the best hé could've pulled off with his gear. So the gap between the 2 specs is higher, really, with is a shame because I would have welcome something new to try.

KangoRue's Avatar


KangoRue
12.10.2012 , 05:44 PM | #40
Personally speaking, I ONLY pvp. I have tried most of the cookie cutter specs out there, 23/1/17, 0/31/10,10/0/31, and variations thereof. I've tried to mad maul and I have to say from a pvp perspective, i love it. Creeping terror is not a bad dot by any means, however in the heat of the moment, I find that casting 3 dots plus death field, plus shock, plus thrash is tiresome. While mad maul may not be as good on paper, or in a PVE environment, I find that cutting on a dout for a hard-hitting maul is quite fantastic. Death field, discharge, shock, thrash to proc, Crushing Darkness, and a stun to maul is great for killing just about anyone that's not in full WH.

My point is that as far as "the best spec" should be changed "this is the best spec...for ME." If some ****** wants to split points between all 3 trees, and LIKES it...let him. If someone wants to be a dot caster with a double bladed light saber and stealth...let him. If someone wants to tank and be nuisance to the enemy team...let him. Lets stop arguing which is best, and come up with constructive comments about how we can maximize each spec.

Also, learn to read, OS does not affect discharge, but if you are full deception its worth the cast time...as full deception in current gear, each saber proc of surge crits for ~550 damage, with OS that's 1k from a proc. I'm okay with that.