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Commando Heals Need Small Tweak for Ops

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Trooper
Commando Heals Need Small Tweak for Ops

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
12.05.2012 , 05:38 PM | #1
I feel like Commando heals are gimped when it comes to end game operations. We are built for single target healing, i.e., tank healing. But the problem is that operations in swtor aren't geared toward needing a tank healer and a raid healer like in WoW. So that renders Commando healers inferior to Sage healers in most raid encounters. I have yet to encounter an Ops boss that does not favor a Sage's ability to raid wide heal with Salvation.

However, I think there is an easy fix for this. I think the Devs should get rid of the limitation on the number of players healed by Kolto Bomb. And that is really not a buff at all. Back in 1.3 or 1.4, they changed our Kolto bomb so that it worked on everyone in a 4 man group (i.e., limitation went from 3 players to 4). That was basically aimed at making the Commando a little more effective of an aoe healer. Well, that did us litte good in a raid environment, when you need to heal 8 or 16 plyers at a time sometimes. I feel like if our Kolto Bomb could heal everyone in the raid, just like a Sage can with Salvation, it would level the playing field more. It also would not have an effect whatsoever in anyhting except raid encounters where there are more than 4 players.

I was wondering what other Commando healers thought about this idea?

Of course, I do not PVP, so if someone wants to chime in to give their thoughts on how this would not be possible with respect to balanced PVP, then I am all ears.

ViseValencia's Avatar


ViseValencia
12.05.2012 , 09:02 PM | #2
While a buffed Kolto Bomb is a nice idea, I don't feel it necessary since I don't feel we are gimped. I have played all 3 healer types in Ops, and I prefer the Commando. I can handle all Ops situations easily. You have to pepper your heals around, but your heals are generally fast and steady. I rarely have to worry about ammo, and you have the ability to dish out heals during emergencies. The same can be said of the Scoundrel/Operative, but burst healing can easily drain you if you aren't careful. Sage/Inquisitor has a nice pool at their disposal, but you can't deal with emergency bursts as effectively.

Looking at all the tools at your disposal, you'd think the Commando/Mercenary is the worst option, but in practice from my perspective, burst heals can be very important, and that's where they shine. I haven't had much problem keeping groups in Ops up, and if it ever got that bad, chances are the group isn't following through with a good strategy. That, or gear isn't up to snuff yet.

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
12.06.2012 , 02:58 AM | #3
I'll disagree. We do not need an 8-man AoE:

1. For a number of cases, the commando AoE actually beats salvation anyway, since it is on a very short CD, and is an instant, so can be used on movement heavy fights (which BW seems to favor in higher tiers of ops). In the first tier of operations (EV, KP), salvation was king of the hill, and if you had two sages, it was pretty much impossible for anyone to die. In current tiers (TfB HM, EC HM/NiM), salvation at best hits 3-4 people in a typical drop, or maybe hits all 8 for a few seconds. But it isn't the powerhouse it once was. In addition, the sage single-target heals are very very slow...good for a constant amount of healing over time, but not good for dealing with burst damage.

2. I would support a small buff to the AoE, such as making it heal for a bit more. Actually my preferred change though is for it to become "smart", affecting the 4 people in range that are most in need of healing, in raw HP terms.

Commando's do need some love in terms of energy management also...such as a reduced CD on recharge cells....or allowing hammer shot to actually heal ourselves if we have targeted self.

Freeborne's Avatar


Freeborne
12.06.2012 , 10:59 AM | #4
It has been suggested before, but there could be a very easy way to buff our AoE healing in a non-game breaking manner.

Give Kolto Bomb two separate icons, one of which targets a person for the AoE point, and the other of which targets the ground. (The icons would share a CD, have the same costs, and out, etc) I think our biggest limiting factor isn't the amount it heals, but how clunky it feels to use. It would enable faster use, and allow us extra time to hammer shot.
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SPrime's Avatar


SPrime
12.06.2012 , 11:07 AM | #5
I do not think this needs further buffing. If you allow KB to pick up the rest of the group it would make it grossly OP. You would have to reduce the healing output of it by half to compensate in my opinion. Since KB increases incoming heals for those who get picked up by it. Also it gives DR to those picked up by it in supercharge.

While people argue that a sage aoe is king. It is less useful in EC and TFB. Where most groups do not stack together. For example: first 2 bosses on EC have 2 bosses each. It is easier to split the groups into 2 groups of 4. The 2nd 3rd and last boss of TFB good luck trying to get all members of ops stacked for salvation.

What you should try to understand with KB is it picks up 4 people not at random. But the 4 closest to the center of the ground target. So have health bars above everyone, this helps. Also it is instant cast and can be used while moving. Position yourself pick up yourself. I always try to get max people picked up. I know it not the case all the time. But most of the time it can be done.

WooduckAUS's Avatar


WooduckAUS
12.06.2012 , 03:24 PM | #6
I don't think we need any buffs, but i like the idea of a smart heal on our kolto.

Kolto i awesome, 8-12k instant heal every 6 secs..... yes thanks. Prob is, when thrown into a crowd of 6-8 people and it hits no-one..... that hurts. Healing more people would seriously OP it, but allowing it to hit the people who need it most, would tweak it in a non-game changing manner but seriously improve our only ability to heal multliple targets.

Love my commando heals and have no prob healing end game content. Most of the times in ops, we can out heal the sages as it is.... scoundrels..... thats another story...... for another day........

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
12.07.2012 , 12:56 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ViseValencia View Post
While a buffed Kolto Bomb is a nice idea, I don't feel it necessary since I don't feel we are gimped. I have played all 3 healer types in Ops, and I prefer the Commando. I can handle all Ops situations easily. You have to pepper your heals around, but your heals are generally fast and steady. I rarely have to worry about ammo, and you have the ability to dish out heals during emergencies. The same can be said of the Scoundrel/Operative, but burst healing can easily drain you if you aren't careful. Sage/Inquisitor has a nice pool at their disposal, but you can't deal with emergency bursts as effectively.

Looking at all the tools at your disposal, you'd think the Commando/Mercenary is the worst option, but in practice from my perspective, burst heals can be very important, and that's where they shine. I haven't had much problem keeping groups in Ops up, and if it ever got that bad, chances are the group isn't following through with a good strategy. That, or gear isn't up to snuff yet.
IMO poor commandos lacking like hell vs other classes. I even mention it when I lobby for my main consulars , )
I have a lvl 50 scoundrel as well, you can't mention on the same day this two classes (commando - scoundrel) , )
If I meet up with them face to face in wz, I always fell like " hoho! here comes a bonus medal!" , )
They really need some buff! They where nerf to the ground in 1.2

BalphoWan's Avatar


BalphoWan
12.07.2012 , 10:12 AM | #8
I agree with alot of what has been posted, and I definitely see how buffing Kolto Bomb to cover an entire Ops group could be OP. My favorite comment was about making KB "smart," to affect those with the lowest health. I think that would go a long way to make us more effective in Ops.

But I disagree that Sages arent more effective in EC and TFB. On almost every fight; you can tailor your strategy to take advantage of Salvation to make the Ops much more easy. I know in my guils'd Ops, we have just seen a natural tendency to prefer Sages. It's not about placement of Salvation, so much as it is that everyone in our Ops group knows they can run toward the golden circle at any time to get heals. And it works really well. And I have just started to notice a small imbalance in Ops, tending to favor Sage healers. I have healed the fights, and we do okay, but it's easier for Sages. But I will concede that in the Terror from Beyond, and the first 2 fights in EC, it's not as much a problem because the groups are separated. But for 16 man, it is still a problem. Anytime you are healing more than 4 at a time, KB becomes a DRASTICALLY less efficient heal. And I still thinks that needs a tweak.

But, like I said, I think a "smart" KB would actually go a long way and would strike the right balance. Too often the heal from KB is wasted on players that are near full health.

EDIT: Also, to be fair, we are very melee heavy in our guild's Ops, which aids in the effectiveness of Salvation, as all of our DPS are usually stacked on top of one another.

ViseValencia's Avatar


ViseValencia
12.08.2012 , 10:04 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
IMO poor commandos lacking like hell vs other classes. I even mention it when I lobby for my main consulars , )
I have a lvl 50 scoundrel as well, you can't mention on the same day this two classes (commando - scoundrel) , )
If I meet up with them face to face in wz, I always fell like " hoho! here comes a bonus medal!" , )
They really need some buff! They where nerf to the ground in 1.2
I'm really not talking about PvP. I'm talking strictly PvE. Commandos do have lower numbers overall if you look at raw numbers, but really that's a different mechanical problem at work. In Ops, I really don't see a problem, and I am way more reliable when I heal as a Commando than I am as a Scoundrel or Sage.

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
12.09.2012 , 03:51 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ViseValencia View Post
I'm really not talking about PvP. I'm talking strictly PvE. Commandos do have lower numbers overall if you look at raw numbers, but really that's a different mechanical problem at work. In Ops, I really don't see a problem, and I am way more reliable when I heal as a Commando than I am as a Scoundrel or Sage.
True, that its always depends on what class suits you the best (for example I roll better with my 50 Sage like dps, then with my 50 shadow like dps, even if I know that the shadow is out dmg sage in numbers)

I'm more a pvp player, then pve, and how I see this two playgrounds are eating each other when class balance coming in. Maybe commando's healing seems right when 16 ppl standing on each other for 20 minutes, but in a random fighting situation its lacking. He can't react with emergency.
Any way, every one know experience that commando class lacking, even does players are empathic about the class, who don't play it like a main.