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Trenchcutters and Shadow/Assassin Tanks

Chaqen's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 01:16 PM | #11
For added aoe dps and better burst have your marauder spec to carnage. The combo of berserk+gore+sweep+sweep+sweep....nets me over 100k damage rather quickly (and doesnt overheat/run me out of energy). Only issue with it is the agro your marauder will get... he will need to pop force camo after his 3rd or 4th sweep.

As far as your healers getting stomped, pop force shroud and drop your aoe's before your aoe taunt... as a shadow/sin you have the advantage of building aoe threat while under a shield... no other tank has the ability to do so.

Also i believe i stated it earlier, but will state it again... doesnt matter what tank you're you will be taking one hell of a beating from the trenchcutters. Yes as a shadow/sin you may take a bit more, but healers shouldnt have to hold back any healing on you, like they have to on juggs/PTs due to agro issues... so it is balanced on that fact.
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Gashe's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 01:19 PM | #12
Yeah definitely have your marauder go carnage - they put out a ton of aoe dps. Our Sentinel uses zen/centering to reduce the focus cost and the gcd on cyclone slash to .5 seconds. She puts out a lot of aoe really quick.

As for healing aggro - we always change our guards to the healers during the trench cutter phase.

MelliMelon's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 01:51 PM | #13
My group completed it with one shadow, but we had him on the mobs almost the whole time. With deflection and your gunslinger shield, the damage is managable. Of course the healers can't be walking around, they gotta be healing with their CDs, but our shadow took almost all of the aoe trenchcutter damage.

JamesBalla's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 02:46 PM | #14
Didn't feel like reading the whole thread. I did the fight on my shadow tank. It's really easy. if you have spevific questions you can ask. It's easy do-able. Trust me. Comment back with any questions and ill do my best to answer them. I'll read the full post when I'm home, on my phone ATM

Edit, just read the actual post and realized how dumb I sounded. This can be done with 2 shadow tanks, but yeah strategies would be cheesy. Melvyn, the group and I spent a long time on this fight, the first 15 hours figuring out the trandoshans. I can't tell you how many times wiping to the trenchutters made my cry in vent about why I wanted a vanguard. It really sucked. Again, ill provide a little extra insight when I get home.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 03:58 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBalla View Post
Melvyn, the group and I spent a long time on this fight, the first 15 hours figuring out the trandoshans.
That sounds familiarů

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBalla View Post
I can't tell you how many times wiping to the trenchutters made my cry in vent about why I wanted a vanguard. It really sucked. Again, ill provide a little extra insight when I get home.
I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Suzina's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 04:51 PM | #16
I've not done nightmare kephess, but I can attest that not all classes are created equal in EC nightmare. The work-arounds you have to do to get certain class combinations to work is very real.
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RikuvonDrake's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 05:03 PM | #17
So my alt is an assassin tank and whe clearing EC NiM I had to play on it since our off tank was gone, it has full campaign, nothing else, and in Kephess we did it like this, the other tank picks up the first pack. I normally have aggro since the threat we generate us so high and then he gets it back via AoE taunt, after the first two warriors are dead I get to the 2nd spawnpoint, as soon as they spawn I pop my Force Shroud/Resilience to avoid damage, then Discharge/Force Breach, Wither/Slow Time and finish with as many Lacerate/Whirling Blow that I can, and then I use Deflection/Deflection and just hope my healer can keep me up, no aggro loss and warriors die very fast.

I agree with you that we assassin tanks have bad migration, but we have some nice attacks and a threat generation that is awesome, so I am happy anyway. We only cleared it last week with two assassin tanks and then we had two very good healers with awesome gear and at least one tank with almost full 63 (and me with campaign) and we did it the same way we did it when we had me and a PT (that we had during the same week and release when we got our server first) without any problems. What is breaks down to is healers skill and preparation, as well as having some awesome DPS that can burn down the adds so healers don't have to many targets that needs healing.

If your tactic works, there is no need to do anything about it, even thought you have two "bad" tanks for the fight, it all boils down to the skill of the players in the raid.

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sankalp's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 05:43 PM | #18
Hey KBN,

I have run this with both 2 sin tanks and 1 sin and 1 jugg tank.

I will explain the part before the trenchcutters(TC from now on) as I feel this is important.

Our raid groups is pretty solid but we sometimes have the jugg tank not be there or 1 of the dps not be there so we swap a fair bit. Ideally we run with 2 tanks(sin/jugg) 2 heals(op/sorc) and 4 dps(2 mercs 1 pt 1 mara 1 sin - one sits out, either mara or sin). incase the jugg is not there, 1 of the mercs switches to this sin tank and we have both sin and mara dps)

For the 3 droid phase me, op healer and sin/merc dps take left droid, 2nd tank sorc healer merc take the right droid and PT/Mara take the middle. if we dont have the mara, then its only me and op healer on left droid and it gets to 2 stacks max, mostly 1.

Once we deal with the bomber, and this is from atleast 15 hours worth of wipes on this boss, the first pack of TC never ever come to me. Regardless of if it is the jugg or the other sin, they will always go to the other tank. same for packs 2 and 3 as well. The only time I had pack 2 come to me is when we changed strat and I tried taunting 1 warrior from the first 2 packs to come to me, found the TC follow the warrior if I taunt.

Anyways, what we do is we cross over to the left of the walker, PT/Mata or PT/SIn pick up one warrior each. Both mercs do 1/2 attacks of each warrior, then aoe pack 1. We find that all TC automatically run for the other tank, who uses his smash between my discharge and wither( I wither straightaway wait for him to smash and then discharge, also, if its 2 sin tanks, its a stream of wither/discharge lacerate). This gives us enough aggo without using taunts, and after the mercs have put 1/2 shots into the warrior, one of them will use DFA and the other uses sweeping pistol attack(donno what its called). I make sure my wither and discharge is off cd, and we have timed it so that we have the first group dead before the 2nd group has had time to run to us(we are behind the walker).

Rinse and repeat of the above for group 2, but we cant kill them before group 3 comes at us. We just use wither smash discharge or wither wither discharge discharge depending on the combo. No one else hits the mob at this time as mercs help burn warriors. All we aim to do is hold threat till both warriors in group 2 are dead.

As soon as group 3 spawns and runs towards us, 1 tank aoe taunts, the mercs(if we have 2) start 2nd round of AOE(1 DFA and 1 Sweeping pistols). and then the PT joins with this DFA. While this is happenning, the 2nd tank will use his AOE taunt and use CDs.

I use adrenal as well, I try and not use my medpack unless 100% required. I also try and time it so that i have 3 stacks of harness as soon as I aoe taunt, as my FL straight after taunt gives the heals a bit of rope. I heal myself for 550 per tick, I am sure yours would be higher with the relic. Also, I try and delay the 2nd AOE taunt as much as I can, sometimes when things go properly, I dont need it, sometimes I will do it but I know its only to get some pressure off the 2nd tank.

Hopefully this will help a bit.

VigDiath's Avatar

12.05.2012 , 06:18 PM | #19
This really makes me want to respec my Balance Shadow to a tank spec since my other Shadow on Shadowlands isn't being used much these days. If you find a strategy that works better than the one you posted then please share. I'd love to try this but still haven't gotten into many 8/16 man ops yet.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

Leafy_Bug's Avatar

12.06.2012 , 06:23 AM | #20
This thread is making me .... cry . My guild and I have yet to kill Kephess in nightmare so I blame you guys for retiring my shadow tank . Nobody hits my tank for 19k (empowered slash ). I am sitting pretty well with 4 configs at 31700hp max hp at the moment with exotech stim and 27 defence. While my preferred config is 30600 HP with 32% defence (transcedence from our sentinels on cd) where the defence is going to 40+ and torparse shows alot of mitigation, the trench cutters aspect of the Kephess fight is worrying me. I am almost BIS 63 with a few bits and pieces missing.

I have all the necessary dreadguard relics, including the healing one, thanks for the tip, my HPS has almost doubled. I will bookmark this thread and share the tactics with my progression group because I know I will be chopped down like a tree. We are using a scoundrel and commando combo for healers with one above 800 bonus healing and the other close to 800. The single heals are nice, 8ks everywhere but if we dont use the right tactic on these cutters they will be dry and we will wipe.

We used to farm denova hard mode with two shadow tanks but after some more research we opted for a new composition involving a guardian and a shadow. This seems to work better for us because we complement the raid well.