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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.05.2012 , 10:18 AM | #401
Quote: Originally Posted by Beakertanks View Post
By the way I do this. It is Spectacularly fun. I also have a level 50 in full War Hero gear (augmented etc.) SO I "put my big boy pants on" as well. I feel no Shame. None. I worked long and hard to make my Twink. I spent millions of credits on my twink. And I will proudly play him till I the game ceases to function.
I'm not going to go into the whole issue of that you're just essentially wasting your own time if you enter warzone and leave before it finishes, so you can perpetually stay lvl49. Others have done that already for me.

I will, however, call you out on one thing. You are abandoning your teammates for your own selfish reasons (to avoid getting experience) and bailing on your teammates is wrong.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.05.2012 , 10:26 AM | #402
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Cool Story Bro.




*sighs* I keep saying I'm done and then I give into the urge to laugh at someone's willful ignorance. Sorry, it seems your thread got a little hijacked on what qualifies as an exploit. However, I do have something relevant to add:

I believe someone might have mentioned this before, but I think whether to "fix" this issue or just as a good feature to add to pvp, medals should give exp when received. I would reduce the exp reward at the end by 10% or so, and then add scaling exp rewards per medal that equal out to that 10%.

I'm open to anyone who can point out something I missed, but of any leveling activity PvP is the only one that doesn't give full rewards till it's completed. Quests have mobs, activities and bonuses that give exp even if you drop the quest instead of turning it in. Flashpoints are the same. Space missions give a little exp per enemy destroyed as well as contianing bonuses, etc... Even exploration grants small amounts of exp when encountering a new area or accessing a new "codex." Adding small activity related exp in pvp would only bring it more in line with other level related activities.

I'd love to hear (not directed at you Seena) a reason the inclussion of experience for medals (capping at 8 as normal) when you receive them isn't a good thing, even just from an equality of "playstyles" standpoint.
Meh, getting sucked back in.... happens to the best of us, especially with the rampant... um... challenges...



I've learned to just put certain people on ignore. Took me awhile to learn this, but it is very effective.

I think the exp award with medals is an excellent, (non resource intensive I'd think?) solution.


As for the hijacking and the definition of exploit. You know, I never thought anyone would try to argue this isn't an exploit or that it's actually an intended game mechanic. Imo that's just ludicrous - and I usually don't contemplate the absurd as a possibility

What I did anticipate was the requisite "you're just jealous of twinks" "learn to play" "move to level 50" comments - and the vehement defense of using said exploit (because it's "harmless") -- while vehemently denying use of said exploit by said defender.

One of the reasons I usually avoid the forums...
MAINGEAR Gigabyte-Z68X-UD7-B3 MB; i7 2600K OC @ 4.8Ghz; (2) NVIDIA gtx 680 in SLI; 16Gb 1866Mhz Corsair Vengeance mem; HD1: Intel 510 Series SSD 250GB SATA III HD2: SAMSUNG 1 Tb; ASUS Xonar Audio, 1200W Silverstone PS, With GPU and CPU liquid cooling......

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
12.05.2012 , 10:34 AM | #403
Medals wouldn't be a bad idea. make it 8 medals = 40 comms and half of exp character would gain in case of lost (so my disconnected character will get some exp and comms, but it can't be exploited in getting more comms for less time, or more comms to less exp etc)
Math person should do some math on ratio, problem solved..
I still don't agree it's an exploit, I agree to 'fix' as I hate to get DC 1 minute before WZ ends on my leveling character...
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
12.05.2012 , 10:43 AM | #404
Only problem with medal giving comms and exp is,. that it rewards people who leave warzone.... and can encourage ppl in leaving....
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.05.2012 , 11:03 AM | #405
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Only problem with medal giving comms and exp is,. that it rewards people who leave warzone.... and can encourage ppl in leaving....
I would definitely agree they should not give comms, leaving a warzone is suppose to have a penalty.

I do think however, exp given when a medal is obtained wouldn't encouraged people to leave as long as the exp is marginal compared to the end result. For example:

I just hit 50 on my operative and my last level as about 450,000 exp needed. Without any kind of exp booster I averaged 20,000 exp per warzone (at an average of 12 minutes a game not including wait times).

I said 10% earlier, but even 20% of 20,000 is 4,000. Divided by a maximum 8 medals, and we're talking 500 exp a medal (Which is about the same as your standard trash mob pack). I guess the question would be how fast can you obtain those 8 medals, and is it worth it to quit after that and try for another warzone. Without further data I can not make that determination completely, but I'd wager a guess "No."

Btw: at 20,000 exp per match, that's about 22.5 matches to ding. Someone wishing to prolong their 49-hood would have to a.) Suck so bad they didn't get maximum medals and b.) be able to prolong their stay to 112.5 matches assuming they did get maximum medals. =P Still plenty of time to "get their money's worth" for all the credits they blew on being "49-gods."

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
12.05.2012 , 11:11 AM | #406
Medals giving exp only but not comms is a penalty to disconnected people who not only level thro WZ but gather comms not to be recruits on start.
well, if a lost game with 8 medals = 20k exp and 80 comms, leaving (or being disconected/crashed) would give (let's say) 5k exp and 20 comms.

thoughts?
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.05.2012 , 11:30 AM | #407
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Medals giving exp only but not comms is a penalty to disconnected people who not only level thro WZ but gather comms not to be recruits on start.
well, if a lost game with 8 medals = 20k exp and 80 comms, leaving (or being disconected/crashed) would give (let's say) 5k exp and 20 comms.

thoughts?
I'd still shy away from giving comms. The basis for this change would be an over all equality of "activity" (PvE, PvP, Space, etc...) rewarding partial completion. Since Comms (no matter the ammount) are useful in obtaining gear, giving comms for partial and/or disconnect completion would unbalance it.

A thought had occured though, as I've seen posts before asking for warzone credit rates to be raised as they are sub-oar compared to the "PvE Dallies" one could add credits onto the medals as well instead of dailies. You manage 8 medals but discconect before the match? Sadly no comms for you, but atleast you get 4-5k exp and some credits.

maestruljedi's Avatar


maestruljedi
12.05.2012 , 11:45 AM | #408
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Cool Story Bro.
Check-mate.

It is anecdotal because you choose to interpret all that crap for your own purpose. I can do it in reverse, but we get nowhere. To put it simply, there is nothing in ToS, ToU, EULA, dev tracker and anything you want to name in regards to this issue. Nothing whatsoever. So instead of thinking this is a non-issue for BW, you choose to believe that "OMG, this is an exploit and they're covering it up !!!". Tin foil hat off, please. Be objective for a change.

Quote:
If you really cared about "freedom of choice" you'd petition bioware for an inclusion of an "exp/rewards" toggle so you could finish a warzone and actually see who won and your score. As you also haven't read or understood a word I said about my opinion on this "seriousness" of this issue and apparently Official Bioware Articles, Official Bioware Posts, the ToS, and Industry Relevant articles are ancedotal in your eyes, I will not waste my time.
BW has more important things to tweak than this crap. This is low-prio at best or a non-issue at worst. Industry relevant crap is irrelevant crap. Again, if you point me out to the dev/CM that said "leaving WZs is an exploit, not a feature" then we can discuss about that. No, all you have is a "feeling" that it's wrong and against... whatever misplaced sense of morality you have in your mind. World doesn't revolve around you and what you "feel" is right or wrong, and we're all free to play and do whatever we want to do. Deal with it or kindly take your escape pod.

They never said it, and if it was considered an exploit it wouldn't take a year to fix it. This is the truth. Unless, of course, you think they're idiots or incompetent or there's a conspiracy or something.

Quote:
*sighs* I keep saying I'm done and then I give into the urge to laugh at someone's willful ignorance. Sorry, it seems your thread got a little hijacked on what qualifies as an exploit. However, I do have something relevant to add:

I believe someone might have mentioned this before, but I think whether to "fix" this issue or just as a good feature to add to pvp, medals should give exp when received. I would reduce the exp reward at the end by 10% or so, and then add scaling exp rewards per medal that equal out to that 10%.

I'm open to anyone who can point out something I missed, but of any leveling activity PvP is the only one that doesn't give full rewards till it's completed. Quests have mobs, activities and bonuses that give exp even if you drop the quest instead of turning it in. Flashpoints are the same. Space missions give a little exp per enemy destroyed as well as contianing bonuses, etc... Even exploration grants small amounts of exp when encountering a new area or accessing a new "codex." Adding small activity related exp in pvp would only bring it more in line with other level related activities.

I'd love to hear (not directed at you Seena) a reason the inclussion of experience for medals (capping at 8 as normal) when you receive them isn't a good thing, even just from an equality of "playstyles" standpoint.
Here's one reason: with some ACs, i can get to 8 medals quite fast. What's stopping me from leaving the match and queue for the next one to get more xp and comms ? I don't think this would be a problem for lowbie pvp, but lvl 50 pvp is a grind (and will remain so until 1.6 and maybe even further). So if someone pvps not for fun, but for gear, the best comms/hour grind is to quickly rack up 8 medals then leave and go for the next. Of course, this is bad practice, right ? So you'd have to come up with some rules against this kind of behavior. Then you'd have to be real careful about these rules so they won't screw over those that leave the match for benign reasons -- disconnects, emergencies, whatever.

I know it seems simple, and i wouldn't mind it -- heck, just last week i had a great VS match where my merc got like 6-7 medals in the first 3 mins on the attacking side, but then the food i ordered showed up, had to take it and pay the delivery guy, it took a little more than 2 mins and that was that. So i learned not to do that when i pvp. It wasn't the system that was flawed, it was my choice. Don't fix what isn't broken or you risk breaking stuff that wasn't.

Everyone can do what they want in the current setting, and BW's attention should be directed toward other more important things than an XP lock.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.05.2012 , 11:51 AM | #409
Quote: Originally Posted by Seena View Post
I've learned to just put certain people on ignore. Took me awhile to learn this, but it is very effective.

I think the exp award with medals is an excellent, (non resource intensive I'd think?) solution.
Sadly without insider knowledge of Bioware's coding, code team, resources, and time constraints we can't really tell how resource intensive a solution would be, but I imagine something as simple as +500 exp when X happens can't be too hard.

I would suggest putting a post in the suggesiton forum for this.

Also, if you haven't already and really feel strongly about this issue, you can ticket/report people you suspect of this and explain in that ticket what they're doing. You'll gain more ground if you watch them for awhile and note down the warzones and the times you see them leave. Bioware may do nothing, but they are the ones with the ability to see if there is a pattern.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seena View Post
As for the hijacking and the definition of exploit. You know, I never thought anyone would try to argue this isn't an exploit or that it's actually an intended game mechanic. Imo that's just ludicrous - and I usually don't contemplate the absurd as a possibility

What I did anticipate was the requisite "you're just jealous of twinks" "learn to play" "move to level 50" comments - and the vehement defense of using said exploit (because it's "harmless") -- while vehemently denying use of said exploit by said defender.

One of the reasons I usually avoid the forums...
Because the definiton of "Exploit" is so broad (as is the one for "Intended") most issues like this fall into a grey category. There is no literature that I've found that prohibits someone leaving for this reason, and many people take the stance "If it doesn't say I -can't- do it, then I can!"

I found the same problem in Tera with their political system and Guild vs. Guild. A few guilds made alt guilds when Tera introduced "Open World GvG contests to control territory" and just farmed their alts to win, while hiding from legitmate guilds. There was nothing in the "rules" that stated you couldn't register two guilds and farm them. Tera's Dev's laughed, told those guilds they should have know better and then punished them.

Also, if you haven't already and really feel strongly about this issue, you can ticket/report people you suspect of this and explain in that ticket what they're doing. You'll gain more ground if you watch them for awhile and note down the warzones and the times you see them leave. Bioware may do nothing, but they are the ones with the ability to see if there is a pattern.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.05.2012 , 12:00 PM | #410
Quote: Originally Posted by maestruljedi View Post
Check-mate.
*snip*
Cool story bro.

Quote: Originally Posted by maestruljedi View Post
What's stopping me from leaving the match and queue for the next one to get more xp and comms.
My post says exp only, at a marginal amount compared to the end result exp, just as questing or space missions give marginal amounts of exp for mobs/ships during the activity, with a larger sum at the end.

Another poster mentioned comms too, and I fully disagree with awarding those till the end for the exact reason you stated.

Edit: But If I'm reading the last portion of your post correctly, I'm glad you agree it's a simple fix as long as handled properly, and it would work in favor of all. Sure you ordered food when trying to pvp and you had to leave, (I'm assuming sub 50, or it would be pointless any way in a +exp only system) but it would be nice if you received -some- exp for that 6-7 medal effort, much as if you had started a flashpoint, mashed your way almost to the first boss and realized your stove was on fire.