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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.03.2012 , 10:00 PM | #361
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
You seem to have missed the part where I challenged the definition you drew from that article. That article is specifically about bugs and exploits that come from bugs. It doesn't exclusively say all exploits are bugs. It is too narrow an article to draw "Bioware's" definition of an exploit from.
You may feel it's too narrow, but what you "feel" doesn't matter. Seeing as that is the ONLY article from BW on exploits, well that's what we're gonna have to go on. If you've got something from BW saying otherwise, please show me.

Quote:
Secondly, whether or not the ToS comes from EA or BW is irrelevant. If Bioware or EA is looking for a way to justify banning/punishing someone, they will draw upon the ToS and not an article from way back in 1.2.
It is not irrelevant. EA has nothing to do with banning people inside SWTOR. They are just a publisher that wants zee monies. Like I said, that ToS is a generic thing EA has for all their games/services. That's why there's random crap like "no uploading images in chat rooms" in the ToS. We can't even do that in SWTOR.

It's up to Bioware to enforce what they want, and it's BW who we all should be scared of receiving a ban hammer from.




Quote:
I believe I've done a fair portion of my "burden of proof."

First I showed that Bioware will not acknowledge something as an exploit openly until it is fixed, thus dissproving that we need a Bioware stamp of Exploiting to determine an exploit.
Nope. They do acknowledge exploits w/o having a resolution in place. For example, there was a bug that allowed people on PvE servers to flag enemies by standing in their companions AoE. People were exploiting this bug to flag people and kill them. BW acknowledged that exploit way before it ever got fixed. They also acknowledged the "getting more than 8 people" in a WZ exploit way before it got fixed too.

Quote:
Second I proved Bioware doesn't ban everyone who exploits, as evidenced by the massive amount of people form Ilum who remained unpunished, while only the worst offenders were. It is just bad business sense to ban everyone who miss-uses the system, especially in anything that is either "not that bad" or a "grey area."
I never claimed BW bans everyone who exploits, but they DO BAN a few. Some people got banned for Ilum exploits, some got banned for "8+ people in WZ" exploit. NOBODY has ever gotten banned for staying 49.

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Third, I proved through a logical path way that believe/saying the "Leave Warzone" feature was intended to be used to dodge rewards is illogical, and goes against every other legitmate intenion in the game. The game has a natural cycle pre 50 (Particpation > Completion > Reward > Level). Leave Warzone has other legitimate reasons to exist, other than to intterupt this cycle.
Doesn't matter WHAT YOU believe to be the "natural" cycle of this game is. Dude, if I wanted to stay level 10 forever and leave WZs as a level 10 because I want to be a dick and gimp my WZ teammates, I can.

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Considering the number of articles, dev posts, and even the ToS that myself and others have brought to the table, including the refuting of the one article and one dev post you brought, your assertion I am not meeting my burden of proof is pretty laughable. =P

Just like science, we can never be 100% sure of anything. I feel confident to say I'm 99% sure without bioware confirmation these things can be considered exploits, and I've brought articles, posts, and logical reasoning to prove it. If you wanna stick to the 1% uncertianity be my guest, but it's kinda like those folks who still think evolution is fake without their sky daddy coming down himself and smacking them with a textbook.
Proof would be linking us an article where BW says this is unintended or a bug or an exploit, or anything.

All you've done is merely the armchair philosopher's SWTOR version of trying to prove God's existent using Intelligent Design.

*ring ring ring*
/picks up phone
Hey Doom, it's the furniture store. They're calling me to let you know that you've got no legs to stand on.

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar


DarkSaberMaster
12.03.2012 , 10:14 PM | #362
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Proof would be linking us an article where BW says this is unintended or a bug or an exploit, or anything.
This right here says it all. Until the quoted is posted, everything on this subject is nothing but speculation and wishful thinking.
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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.03.2012 , 10:16 PM | #363
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSaberMaster View Post
This right here says it all. Until the quoted is posted, everything on this subject is nothing but speculation and wishful thinking.
and whining

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.03.2012 , 11:17 PM | #364
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
*Snip*
*Rolls eyes.*

I'm done. =P good luck in life, you'll need it.

-Holmes's Avatar


-Holmes
12.03.2012 , 11:56 PM | #365
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
That would also help those who got disconnected during a game for whatever reason, their time spent in the WZ would not be totally wasted. Another goodie.
And that would put leveling through PvP on par with PvE.
The OMGWTFBBQHAX Legacy

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.04.2012 , 12:44 AM | #366
Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
And that would put leveling through PvP on par with PvE.
lolwut

no it wouldnt

MimicUnleashed's Avatar


MimicUnleashed
12.04.2012 , 02:02 AM | #367
Quote: Originally Posted by Bugattiboy View Post
Well if level 50 PvP didn't suck balls we wouldn't have this problem.
This to some degree. The huge leap between pre-50 and 50 PvP discourages people. Mostly the casual PvPers who get disgusted at trying to grind out gear by attacking an army of (to them) unkillable monsters with various weapons forged by Gods. PvPing and having fun for the casual player not looking to grind-out their gear is almost entirely for pre-50. After that it's like running OPs with 2-3 naked people and praying the bosses drop things they need so you don't die every fight.

Unfortunately that will not change. I don't like this method, and I don't support it. I am leveling a character from 46-50 entirely from PvP for coms so when I hit 50 I have some gear to start with. So I won't completely drag down my team. And that right there is the only reason I loath 50 PvP. You either have bleeding edge gear or you don't. The skill window is narrowed to so fine a space that certain skills/trees/ACs will kill you no matter what you do. It's something that needs an address for the casual PvP community, and then you'll stop seeing the weirdo-twinks.
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimsPicken View Post
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Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.04.2012 , 02:05 AM | #368
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
*Rolls eyes.*

I'm done. =P good luck in life, you'll need it.
If you can't beat someone with logic, insult them. I win.

/flex

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.04.2012 , 03:27 AM | #369
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
If you can't beat someone with logic, insult them. I win.

/flex
*rolls eyes again.*

You have provided two links.

One is an article on fixing bugs and exploits, and you claim this is enough to tell Bioware's definiton of an exploit. The article is specifically about bugs and exploits of bugs, and says nothing to the effect of "all exploits are bugs." You have failed to prove this is Bioware's sole definiton of what is an exploit.

You then provided an apology post from Bioware, and miss-stated it's context. The apology was for the GM's actions which broke several of Bioware's standards, and the actions of the players were not against the natural way a pvp server is intended. That link isn't even relevant to the conversation.

So no, I will not argue with a person whom uses their own definitons, backwards logic, and is plainly just stubborn. Now for your amusement, have a link to wikipedia, which has other sources quoted (in case you wanna pull "wikipedia's not a reliable source). Video Game Exploiting.

While I'm sure you'll cling to your "bioware's definition," note the section that covers both greifing using an exploit, and the list of common exploits where you will find "Game Mechanics."

Quote: Originally Posted by Wikipedia
See also: Griefing

While players more frequently exploit issues to gain advantage for themselves, sometimes they may use them instead to irritate other players, known as griefing.[3] One team of gamers in Team Fortress 2 produced popular online videos demonstrating their griefing and also several exploits present in the game, most of them being of little use for personal gain.[7] Another famous incident during the Ultima Online beta test saw a player kill Lord British when that character was supposed to be invincible; the tester was later banned for exploiting rather than reporting the bugs he found.[8]
Quote: Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Common types of exploits include:

Duping Duplicating items or money.

Lag and disconnection exploits A game with inadequate lag handling may let players intentionally cause lag for themselves to cause an advantage.[2] Similarly, a game that lets a player disconnect immediately with no consequences may let players exit a game without suffering a loss. (Shogun 2: Total War)

Geometry Taking advantage of how the game world is built. Typically the goal of these exploits is to reach normally inaccessible areas or take unintended shortcuts in the game world. These are commonly achieved by going through walls, crossing invisible barriers made by the programmers, or scaling ledges not intended to be climbable.

Twinking Taking advantage of design flaws in the game's gearing system in order to appear better than you actually are. Because of the EULA which twinking does not violate, it is very commonly patched in order to prevent such an exploit from posing a serious problem.

Movement speed bugs These usually allow the player to move faster than intended, such as bunny hopping. Many of these have been embraced by certain games, such as skiing in the Tribes series.

Safezones Places where a player can attack with no risk of being attacked back. This is often a form of an exploit in the geometry (terrain) of a game—however, a game may have areas that make players within them safe (especially in PvP games/zones where the opposing faction(s) may not enter) from attack while not disallowing the safe players to attack.

Game mechanics Taking advantage of the systems that make up the gameplay. A game mechanics exploit is not a bug—it is working as designed, but at the same time is not working as intended. Things such as hitting an enemy in a zone then running off, knowing that when the enemy soon despawns you will get full credit for the "kill", as you did 100% of the damage to it (even though the damage did not kill it). Such as in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, where online you may come between a fight and it would not be a team battle, and characters would help one win. That means they would let one of the characters they are trying to help win, hit them then intentionally run off the stage to get the other player credit for killing them.

Each game has potential for exploits unique to that game's rules. For example, in World of Warcraft, wall-walking allowed a player to climb steep mountains that are supposed to be impassable to get into unfinished areas or make one's character not attackable by mobs or other players. EverQuest had an exploit in player versus player analogous to weight cutting in sports whereby a player would intentionally lose levels by dying in order to compete against lower-level players while wielding higher-level items and skills (game mechanics exploit). In the game City of Heroes people were using teleport powers to place others inside the PvP zones' watchtowers which, originally designed as props for atmosphere, had no way in or out if you could not teleport (the towers have since gained a doorway).

It is likely you will not receive another response from me. Good day sir.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.04.2012 , 03:36 AM | #370
I don't get the problem. I honestly don't get it. The people who do this and leave warzones early literally don't get anything out of it. No money, no exp, no comms, nothing! If anything, they're hurting themselves more than the opposite team, because all they do is waste their own time.

Even if you lose to them, you get more out of the match because you go away with experience and comms. And pre-50 PvP doesn't take that long (compared to 50 PvP anyway) and soon you'll have much more pressing issues to be concerned about.
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