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Taunt Ability Delay between different tanking classes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Taunt Ability Delay between different tanking classes

Moriganno's Avatar


Moriganno
12.03.2012 , 03:28 PM | #1
Hi there guys. Just last night I was having this arguement with my guildies regarding taunt delays between the different tanking classes while raiding, specifically the PT and Assassin tanks.

The PT says that there is a delay to mobs reacting to his taunts due to the travel-time of his "taunt dart"(which I have repeatly explained that it is just an animation) so everyone gotta wait for his taunts to "reach" his target, while for my Assassin's taunts, mobs react instantly to me. The mara who has both PT and Sin alts agree with him, citing that the Assasin's taunts are instant while the PT's taunts have a delay (due to the travel time of the dart?!!) and I should go test by taunting the dummies on my ship and watch the taunt debuff delay differences on them for myself.

Frankly that's a load of bull to me because I've personally have played all 3 tank classes months before to fully understand the differences between them, playing multiple flashpoints with all 3 and have never noticed such differences. The only delay is in certain mobs reaction to my taunts (which is extremely evident when you play an Assassin tank). An perfect example would be the slight delay in reaction time of the Big round droid(who does Overload) during the minesweeper boss in HM EC.

I've just went back to my ship and tested my taunts with both my Assassin and PT on the Operation dummy. Targetting the dummy and watching it's debuffs, upon pressing either my Single-Taunt or AOE-Taunt, I see no differences at all in the time it took for my "Taunt" debuff to show instantly on the dummy on either my PT or Sin. The PT's taunt dart is again imo just an animation based on this test.

Both the PT and mara are good players imo, although the mara is now teething on the Noob boundry to me with his dummy testing statement. The PT I can forgive because the travel time of his "taunt dart" does make it look like the mobs need time to react to him and I suspect he's a closet clicker (which probably adds to the "delay"), he's genuinely great to raid with (and the GM ). Don't think I'm missing anything here, but what's everyone's Tanks take on this?

tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
12.03.2012 , 03:58 PM | #2
First thought is that players that use excuses to force their raid to do things differently are the ones that need to alter what they're doing. As a PT tank, I can understand the idea of a delay, since there is a visual and audio delay. Without doing specific testing, I can't agree one way or the other, but I'd bring up the fact that the debuff isn't necessarily the only factor. At the core, it's when the mob turns that really matters, and after leveling a sin recently, it certainly feels like mobs are quicker to turn for a sin. That obviously is probably not true, but a different perspective.

It sounds like you might have touched on a different topic here though, which is the sheer number of encounters that require tanks to manually target mobs that do not yet exist or are "green" (examples: WH jealous male, Operator IX adds, TFB tentacles, Minesweeper Droids, Kephess trandoshan warriors, Nightmare Pilgrim and TFTS). This is obviously an added task for the tank, as he has to get the thing targeted (and not the wrong thing targeted in many cases), taunt, and at the same time build an insane amount of threat to keep up with dpsers who are now opening with 2k+ dps. Where I can, I open with flame thrower so I can get initial aggro, but it certainly becomes a pain in NiM kephess trying to drag warriors out of packs. Nothing more to say about it, except that in those instances you just have to hope for the best.

I guess I'd be interested in knowing the encounter where dps needs to wait. If you're in NiM EC and you're not doing a count down, you should probably start. That allows dps to know when the taunt is going to hit. If they can both pull aggro and also take damage from the boss in the time between when your tank says 1 and GO, you've got some very precise dps
DrGordon - Chosen - Prophecy of the Five

Dacce's Avatar


Dacce
12.03.2012 , 08:22 PM | #3
As a healer I have actually seen this. Did you do your "testing" on the dummy at max range? because this is where you will see it the most.

In my guild we have a PT tank and a Sin/Jugger combo, and I've seen the PT taunt, the mob continues attacking the other tank, then the dart hits and the boss changes targets (This is on Toth and Zorn). Where as the Sin or Jugger taunts and its instantaneous.
Visage - Dace - Fat'Clam - Fistula - Shimini - Malikada

Moriganno's Avatar


Moriganno
12.03.2012 , 09:53 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Dacce View Post
As a healer I have actually seen this. Did you do your "testing" on the dummy at max range? because this is where you will see it the most.

In my guild we have a PT tank and a Sin/Jugger combo, and I've seen the PT taunt, the mob continues attacking the other tank, then the dart hits and the boss changes targets (This is on Toth and Zorn). Where as the Sin or Jugger taunts and its instantaneous.
I just went and tested this again on max possible range and the PT does seem to have like a 1/4 second delay to the debuff showing up @ 17m. However I don't see this actually affecting actual play...

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
12.04.2012 , 02:12 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Moriganno View Post
I just went and tested this again on max possible range and the PT does seem to have like a 1/4 second delay to the debuff showing up @ 17m. However I don't see this actually affecting actual play...
If there is in fact a delay of that magnitude on the effect application, then yes, it would have an effect. Toth and Zorn is a good example of where this matters a lot (especially on nightmare mode). Taunts also have to be well-timed on the hover tanks, though it's less of an issue there. Taunt timing is super, *super* critical on Operator IX as well.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
12.04.2012 , 03:10 AM | #6
I've had the feeling at times that taunts on my powertech are slow. But there can be many possibilities. I've never actually checked if the debuff shows up instantly, as I hit 50 recently.

Just a quick copy from combat log of TFB. Anyone able to supply a log of a sin and a jugg with simular info?
Quote:
20:38:44.071 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
20:38:44.176 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Haywire Droid.

21:16:22.548 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
21:16:22.735 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Exogenesis Inhibitor.

21:58:58.633 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
21:58:58.853 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Kephess the Undying.

22:08:30.069 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
22:08:30.286 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Kephess the Undying.

22:34:14.744 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
22:34:14.833 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Tunneling Tentacle.

22:40:54.821 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
22:40:55.021 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Tunneling Tentacle.
Some taunts take ~0.1sec, some ~0.2sec, which is proof there isn't one set time for the taunt to have effect. Note that these are random copies, I have no clue at what range they were used. Some more testing would be needed to conclude it has a direct correlation to the range where the taunt is used.

Might it just that the target-of-target is slow at updating? Or that your target finishes its current attack before target-of-target updates?

Also, if there was such differences between the taunts of different classes - would BioWare not fix it? Having a slower taunt is a very big disadvantage for a class.

Also, my maintank (a jugg) once said something about his taunts having travel-delay when learning a new jugg EC HM kephess, in order to execute last phase perfectly. This I cannot back up with any logs or facts tho, only that one statement. But based on this I believe all classes are simular in terms of taunt-delays.

TyeWebb's Avatar


TyeWebb
12.04.2012 , 05:04 AM | #7
There might be something to this, here are some combat log copies from taunts on my Shadow, you'll notice I see pretty much no delay at all.

20:44:45.526 Lindsayfunke activates Mind Control.
20:44:45.527 Lindsayfunke's Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Recognizer.

21:21:12.917 Lindsayfunke activates Mind Control.
21:21:12.918 Lindsayfunke's Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Operator IX.

Here is an example of an AoE taunt as well
20:34:47.025 Lindsayfunke activates Mass Mind Control.
20:34:47.026 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Macro-nanite Suppressor.
20:34:47.027 Lindsayfunke taunts Macro-nanite Suppressor, causing 1595 threat.
20:34:47.027 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Macro-nanite Suppressor.
20:34:47.027 Lindsayfunke taunts Macro-nanite Suppressor, causing 2678 threat.
20:34:47.028 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Molecular Decompiler.
20:34:47.028 Lindsayfunke taunts Molecular Decompiler, causing 4139 threat.
20:34:47.028 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Molecular Decompiler.
20:34:47.029 Lindsayfunke taunts Molecular Decompiler, causing 3788 threat.
20:34:47.029 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Molecular Decompiler.
20:34:47.029 Lindsayfunke taunts Molecular Decompiler, causing 9423 threat.
20:34:47.030 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Macro-nanite Suppressor.
20:34:47.030 Lindsayfunke taunts Macro-nanite Suppressor, causing 3875 threat.
20:34:47.030 Lindsayfunke's Mass Mind Control adds effect Taunt to Molecular Decompiler.
20:34:47.031 Lindsayfunke taunts Molecular Decompiler, causing 8028 threat.

It looks to me like there is a delay for Vanguards/Powertechs at least compared to Shadows. I have a lowbie Powertech, I think around lvl 25, if I have unlocked the taunt ability on there I will try to mess around with it and see if I see delays like Amantino showed above.

Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
12.04.2012 , 06:28 AM | #8
What did you use to parse? I used torparse.com

Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
12.04.2012 , 06:51 AM | #9
Tested some on my guardian. Low lvl so dont have aoe taunt.

13:33:09.575 Kaikka activates Taunt.
13:33:09.576 Kaikka's Taunt adds effect Taunt to Black Sun Sawbones.

13:33:38.283 Kaikka activates Taunt.
13:33:38.284 Kaikka's Taunt adds effect Taunt to Black Sun Sawbones.

13:33:54.068 Kaikka activates Taunt.
13:33:54.068 Kaikka's Taunt adds effect Taunt to Black Sun Thug.

13:34:10.336 Kaikka activates Taunt.
13:34:10.337 Kaikka's Taunt adds effect Taunt to Black Sun Thug.



And some more testing on powertech.

Long range (25-30m)
13:39:41.606 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
13:39:42.003 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Torvix Underboss.

13:40:03.326 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
13:40:03.841 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Torvix Underboss.

13:40:20.832 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
13:40:21.328 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.

Short range (0m)
13:40:37.392 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
13:40:37.509 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Torvix Underboss.

13:41:01.340 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
13:41:01.443 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.

13:41:17.247 Faciál activates Neural Dart.
13:41:17.367 Faciál's Neural Dart adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.

Aoe taunt

Long range (25-30m)
13:41:46.344 Faciál activates Sonic Missile.
13:41:47.244 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.

13:42:31.911 Faciál activates Sonic Missile.
13:42:32.720 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.
13:42:32.720 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.
13:42:32.720 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.
13:42:32.721 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to Torvix Ambusher.

Short range (0m)
13:43:26.007 Faciál activates Sonic Missile.
13:43:26.104 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to Torvix Underboss.
13:43:26.104 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to Torvix War Droid.

13:44:41.370 Faciál activates Sonic Missile.
13:44:41.469 Faciál's Sonic Missile adds effect Taunt to HyperMatter Sentinel Droid.



The numbers speak for themself.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
12.04.2012 , 08:35 AM | #10
I have a sin and a PT. I can say that i feel the delay switching back and forth between the two. A good example is the Kephess fight. Durning the last phase where Kephess casts Breath of the masters. When playing the Sin standing 25-30 meters away while dropping the purple circles when i see this cast i wait until the cast is damn near finished if not full to hit the taunt. On my powertech standing at the same distance i have to taunt when that cast is 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through, if i were to wait as long as i do on the sin my off tank is insta gibbled.

Also just watch, have the PT stand at max distance and hit is AOE taunt(more visual) those mobs wont turn and react to him until you see the darts explosion.

It's not a huge difference but in fights like the kephess one it can make all the difference.