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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.03.2012 , 01:28 PM | #341
Quote: Originally Posted by DazzHottle View Post
You are a coward afriad to fight with the big boys in the big zones. let me tell you you sicken me i will fight for what I believe is right and fight for the lives of empire in warzone with gun there is no holding back. M8.
im sorry what? my main, and really only toon i play, is 50, and has been 50 since january of this year. i was around when there was only ONE pvp queue (50s werent separate). so ive been in the big boy bracket since the very first day there was a big boy bracket.


i think youre RP'ing a little too hard

DazzHottle's Avatar


DazzHottle
12.03.2012 , 01:45 PM | #342
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
im sorry what? my main, and really only toon i play, is 50, and has been 50 since january of this year. i was around when there was only ONE pvp queue (50s werent separate). so ive been in the big boy bracket since the very first day there was a big boy bracket.


i think youre RP'ing a little too hard
I not rp i am telling that i fight for my team mates in combat zones. i do not like cowards.

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
12.03.2012 , 01:58 PM | #343
Quote: Originally Posted by maestruljedi View Post
Pot, meet kettle. I think you're the one that misunderstands terms and concepts. Let me break it down for you, since your dorsal pain clearly clouded your judgment:

1. Leaving a WZ whenever you wanted is a feature, not a bug. It's been like that since beta/early access. You must think the devs are real idiots if they didn't fix this for almost one year. Do you honestly think you're smarter than them ?

2. When bugs happened (there were plenty, especially at launch, GTN sales mail duplicates for one etc) BW was pretty johnny on the spot and fixed them fairly quick. The fact that leaving WZs has no drawbacks (aside losing the credits, valor and comm rewards along with the XP) should be a declaration in itself: this is working as intended. One trades his/her rewards and time for the ability to crush their enemies more efficiently. You get NOTHING out of staying 49 forever. Nothing. Not even stat padding. Nothing. Just the purity of battle and the slaughter of the unsuspecting nerfs. You get nothing out of it other than e-peen. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

3. Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to pvp. If you don't like fighting, don't join WZs. If you don't like getting crushed, then put some effort into your own gear. If you see a pimped out 49-er, just avoid him. There's a throng of solutions for the suffering of your butt, yet you only choose to whine and cry bloody murder.

Let me tell you how it goes. For instance i just pimped my lvl 49 operative with the best purple gear available. All 49 mods, implants, ear and lvl 47 augments (who needs that extra 1 endurance anyway). I did it all by myself, running crew missions with my alts and whatnot. I spent hundreds of thousands of credits getting my crew skills to max and running the missions i needed, RE-ing this and that, not to mention TIME. I did it primarily because i know this gear is entry level for 50s FPs and HMs and whatever. But, if I DECIDE that the amount of time and effort i put into all this warrants me spending a few WZs bashing in some skulls and not getting to 50 where others bash in my skull, that is my own decision, and you got jack sith right to tell me otherwise.

You're too lazy to gear up and too um, let's say inexperienced to make up for your lack of gear with skill. So you lose and your butt is hurting and you decide to reinvent the wheel and spit your on opinion as fact. Here, look, i can do it better:

A. Did BW ever condemned leaving WZs for purpose of perpetual pwnage ? NO
B. Did BW ever banned someone that did ? NO
C. Did BW implemented this feature to leave the WZ and is it live and functioning today ? YES

I deem all your whine invalid. Gear up your char and have a chat with my black friend, Lernto Playrissian. This is a galaxy of opportunities and no one is immortal. Yet you seek to take the choice away from some players. No doubt you've gone dark side.
Thank you for taking the time and writing this post, battling with these people that want to dumb down the game in search for "fairness" is wearing me down. The point to a game is having fun, If your not then do something else.

I gear my toons as much as I can, have not held a toon at 49 but could care less if other people do. I at first disliked twinks in WoW but then I made one to fight the evil ones and found it was a ton of fun and worth the large investment in time.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.03.2012 , 02:00 PM | #344
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
You realize that they have data on pretty much everything that happens in game, they just have to put something in place to use it. So, if they are getting reports of a player leaving warzones just before the game ends (who would leave at this time, you get no rewards after playing an entire match), then they can look at the data to see if that is the case and take appropriate measures.

AFAIK they've never needed videotape to ban hackers, I don't see why this would be any different if players are found to be continuously leaving warzones to avoid XP.
I know they have data on everything that happens in this game. But data cannot account for INTENTION. And since leaving a WZ is NOT a bug, BW doesn't care that people are leaving WZs to avoid xp. I say they don't care, because this has been going on since the game came out, and there has not been ANY mention of this being an exploit by BW, nor has anyone ever been banned for doing it.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.03.2012 , 02:06 PM | #345
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
You are correct, twinking is not an exploit, and no one has said it is.

The exploit comes with indefinite twinking, which is done/caused by leaving a warzone before the end, to avoid the rewards. While this is hard for a player to prove 100%, I believe the OP mentioned things like "Observing several 49's leaving just before the end, repeatedly."

So as you say, twinks are not an exploit, nor is the concept of twinking being discussed here.

As "benefits" are subjective, one could make an argument that these Infinite Twinks (the act of remaining a twink indefinitely)are benefiting in personal reasons (ie. E-peen, Roflstomping, etc...), and that the act of -not- getting conventional rewards allows them to continue receiving their own personal benefits. If their personal benfits are disruptive to others, and are not part of natural gameplay, then it's a problem.

TL-DR: Twinks aren't exploits, Staying a Twink indefinitely is. That's what's being argued and you are arguing using missunderstood terms/concepts.
You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.03.2012 , 02:13 PM | #346
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.
As much as I think twinks are ****... the man has a point here.

Of course... in my understanding of the word "exploit", I completely believe this IS an exploit. HOWEVER, so is power leveling, so WAS jumping the wall in Civil War, appparently legacy gear as well, so is avoiding mobs in operations...

If you don't see my point... it is that all of these things can be considered "exploits". They do not fall into the design of the game "as intended". But none of these are punishable offenses either. And that's the point... none of these are a blatant mis-use of the games design.

Sure, maybe they didn't notice, or expect people to do any of these things. But bottom line.. they know it's happenening, it's not game breaking and they also continue to allow it.

It's annoying.... yes... an exploit... yes.

A punishable offense?

No.

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
12.03.2012 , 02:13 PM | #347
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.
LOL, Burn
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.03.2012 , 02:21 PM | #348
Quote: Originally Posted by maestruljedi View Post
Pot, meet kettle. I think you're the one that misunderstands terms and concepts. Let me break it down for you, since your dorsal pain clearly clouded your judgment:

1. Leaving a WZ whenever you wanted is a feature, not a bug. It's been like that since beta/early access. You must think the devs are real idiots if they didn't fix this for almost one year. Do you honestly think you're smarter than them ?

2. When bugs happened (there were plenty, especially at launch, GTN sales mail duplicates for one etc) BW was pretty johnny on the spot and fixed them fairly quick. The fact that leaving WZs has no drawbacks (aside losing the credits, valor and comm rewards along with the XP) should be a declaration in itself: this is working as intended. One trades his/her rewards and time for the ability to crush their enemies more efficiently. You get NOTHING out of staying 49 forever. Nothing. Not even stat padding. Nothing. Just the purity of battle and the slaughter of the unsuspecting nerfs. You get nothing out of it other than e-peen. Quid pro quo, Clarice.

3. Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to pvp. If you don't like fighting, don't join WZs. If you don't like getting crushed, then put some effort into your own gear. If you see a pimped out 49-er, just avoid him. There's a throng of solutions for the suffering of your butt, yet you only choose to whine and cry bloody murder.

Let me tell you how it goes. For instance i just pimped my lvl 49 operative with the best purple gear available. All 49 mods, implants, ear and lvl 47 augments (who needs that extra 1 endurance anyway). I did it all by myself, running crew missions with my alts and whatnot. I spent hundreds of thousands of credits getting my crew skills to max and running the missions i needed, RE-ing this and that, not to mention TIME. I did it primarily because i know this gear is entry level for 50s FPs and HMs and whatever. But, if I DECIDE that the amount of time and effort i put into all this warrants me spending a few WZs bashing in some skulls and not getting to 50 where others bash in my skull, that is my own decision, and you got jack sith right to tell me otherwise.

You're too lazy to gear up and too um, let's say inexperienced to make up for your lack of gear with skill. So you lose and your butt is hurting and you decide to reinvent the wheel and spit your on opinion as fact. Here, look, i can do it better:

A. Did BW ever condemned leaving WZs for purpose of perpetual pwnage ? NO
B. Did BW ever banned someone that did ? NO
C. Did BW implemented this feature to leave the WZ and is it live and functioning today ? YES

I deem all your whine invalid. Gear up your char and have a chat with my black friend, Lernto Playrissian. This is a galaxy of opportunities and no one is immortal. Yet you seek to take the choice away from some players. No doubt you've gone dark side.
1. I already discussed not all exploiting involves bugs, as the ToS doesn't define it as such and the BW article about fixing bugs -only- focussed on bug, it isn't a broad enough article to reach a definition from.

2. Tangible rewards are not a requirement for an exploit.

3, I've stated multiple times in this thread, that the only real reason I continue to post is a personal pet peeve of people not calling some thing what it is. Whether or not it happens, or BW fixes it, or BW comes out and laughs at the issue and calls it trivial (which I doubt they will), has pretty much zero effect on me. I really don't care if someone wants to stay 49 for ever, but if someone doesn't think it's an exploit (or at the very least, if people can't wrap their brains around what an exploit is, it's an abuse of feature) I'm going to -reason- with them till they get it. Infinite twinking? Exploit. Queue dodging/Ranked Win-trading? Exploit. Purposeful 8-man's in normal Wz's? Exploit. Etc...

The rest of your post just shows your ignorance on where I stand on this issue. =P While your getting your kicks being top dog in sub-50, my alt will be leveling past you, sticking on her legacy gear, and waiting on the other side. I will really only respond to ABC... though I've addressed those points before... -.- I'm really getting tired of repeating myself.

A. Bioware has stated it doesn't acknowledge things it deems exploits till they fix them, to avoid more people using them (which they will either have to ignore, or take action against thus losing revenue.)

B. Bioware only banned the worst Ilum offenders, they do not ban everyone for exploiting. Wonderful part about the ToS is they get to pick and choose when to enforce it. If they banned everyone in violation of the ToS, they probably would be out of business already lol.

C. Can you tell me you honestly think the "Leave Warzone" features was put in place for this reason. out of the dozen other legitimate reasons for the feature? I just imagine the conversation:

Dev 1: Okay, so what do we need in the Warzone?
Dev 2: How about a leave button... ya know, in case someone decides they don't want the rewards or something.
Dev 1: Oh ya, no one likes rewards. We better give them away out!

C2. Also, don't you think if this was the Dev's intentions, they'd have added an "exp off" button like that other game?

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.03.2012 , 02:42 PM | #349
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
That article may be old, but it's also the only article I can find of an official BW person talking about exploits. So until BW comes out with something else that contradicts it, it's the letter of the law.

EA is only the publisher. They don't enforce anything inside the game. They have a say in what BW should do (for example, I'm very sure EA made BW go F2P), but EA doesn't have anything to do with the actual going ons of the gameplay.

But yes, SWTOR is BW's empire, and it's at their discretion whether they should punish you or not. And that is exactly why I don't hold much stock on EA's ToS vs. BW's definition.
You seem to have missed the part where I challenged the definition you drew from that article. That article is specifically about bugs and exploits that come from bugs. It doesn't exclusively say all exploits are bugs. It is too narrow an article to draw "Bioware's" definition of an exploit from.

Secondly, whether or not the ToS comes from EA or BW is irrelevant. If Bioware or EA is looking for a way to justify banning/punishing someone, they will draw upon the ToS and not an article from way back in 1.2.


Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
You seem to consider yourself a logical man. Then you should be familiar with something called the "burden of proof", yes?

Seeing as how BW hasn't made any comment for staying 49, banned anyone for staying 49, has systems in place that allow you to stay 49, it is on YOU to prove that staying 49 is in fact an exploit. Until such times, please refrain from calling it an exploit.
I believe I've done a fair portion of my "burden of proof."

First I showed that Bioware will not acknowledge something as an exploit openly until it is fixed, thus dissproving that we need a Bioware stamp of Exploiting to determine an exploit.

Second I proved Bioware doesn't ban everyone who exploits, as evidenced by the massive amount of people form Ilum who remained unpunished, while only the worst offenders were. It is just bad business sense to ban everyone who miss-uses the system, especially in anything that is either "not that bad" or a "grey area."

Third, I proved through a logical path way that believe/saying the "Leave Warzone" feature was intended to be used to dodge rewards is illogical, and goes against every other legitmate intenion in the game. The game has a natural cycle pre 50 (Particpation > Completion > Reward > Level). Leave Warzone has other legitimate reasons to exist, other than to intterupt this cycle.

Considering the number of articles, dev posts, and even the ToS that myself and others have brought to the table, including the refuting of the one article and one dev post you brought, your assertion I am not meeting my burden of proof is pretty laughable. =P

Just like science, we can never be 100% sure of anything. I feel confident to say I'm 99% sure without bioware confirmation these things can be considered exploits, and I've brought articles, posts, and logical reasoning to prove it. If you wanna stick to the 1% uncertianity be my guest, but it's kinda like those folks who still think evolution is fake without their sky daddy coming down himself and smacking them with a textbook.

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
12.03.2012 , 02:48 PM | #350
Doom I almost always agree with you, but can't on this one.
While I don't do it in this game I have in others. A Exploit is something done by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

First off They had to know it would be a issue for some people not liking this and would have been very easy to not allow it, their top people have been in the industry 10-15 years and likely left it in to see how it would go and to maybe tweak or out right negate it if enough of the paying player complained. The reason in my opinion is that this a time sink for a niche market of players, maybe it's a huge amount I have no clue. But until they denounce it, how can you call it a exploit?
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane