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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

beattlebilly's Avatar


beattlebilly
12.02.2012 , 04:19 PM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
ouch, you have wounded my pride

the twinks which you have been crying about in this thread are NOT exploiting. they are getting ZERO out of leaving warzones before they end. meanwhile, by finishing without them you get XP and are able to level up, and leave the lowbie bracket behind. real PvP starts at 50. lowbie PvP is there for nothinge except introducing you to the mechanics, and giving you an alternate way to gain XP. other than that, it has no bearing on overall play because winning or losing has no real meaning; you get XP either way. not to mention the Bolster effect gives players a false sense of gear equality (except in the case of moron 49 twinkers), which leads to QQ when people hit 50.

if someone wants to waste their time fooling around trolling people in the lowbie bracket, that is their own prerogative. if youre in a WZ with someone doing that, and you dont like it, you can do 2 things: leave, and get no XP, effectively wasting your own time; or you can stick it out, accept the fact that whoever twinking like that was not hugged enough as a child, collect your XP and eventually hit level 50 and leave them behind.

call me bad if you want, tho youre only stating the obvious. my sig is pretty clear on where i sit on the uberness scale.

bottomline is that this is just another thing to whine about. bioware should absolutely not waste time on the lowbie bracket; its a place to learn mechanics and level, nothing more. endgame PvP should be the driving factor behind warzones changes.
Lowbie PvP is valueless to you, but that doesn't automatically make any issue that crops up in it unworthy of discussion and possibly fixing.
The BastionThe Dynamite LegacySix Sith Bag

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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.02.2012 , 04:28 PM | #322
Quote: Originally Posted by beattlebilly View Post
Lowbie PvP is valueless to you, but that doesn't automatically make any issue that crops up in it unworthy of discussion and possibly fixing.
i told you what the value of it is: learn the mechanics of PvP, and level up so you can get to endgame PvP. the people who say that the lowbie bracket is more fun or better or whatever, are the same people that complain about gear imbalances in the 50 bracket (not that they are completely wrong, but if they actually played in the 50 bracket they would get their gear).

bioware's priority for PvP should be overall class balance (no more nerfs ffs, establish a base-line and bring classes up to that), then endgame open world PvP.

lowbie warzones are merely a mechanism for getting to endgame.

ekimmak's Avatar


ekimmak
12.02.2012 , 04:55 PM | #323
I'll admit, sometimes I spend a lot longer than I should making gear for someone at a level lower than 50. It's very entertaining to play through a nearly equal level flashpoint with just your companions. But I never try to stop them from levelling.
Best way to end Smuggler Act 1 is
Spoiler

You can't make up stuff like that.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.02.2012 , 05:20 PM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
twinking is not an exploit.

stop crying, finish leveling, and then you can PvP at 50.

tho, im 100% certain that the people complaining about twinks will be coming back to the forums to complain about gear gaps in the 50 bracket.
You are correct, twinking is not an exploit, and no one has said it is.

The exploit comes with indefinite twinking, which is done/caused by leaving a warzone before the end, to avoid the rewards. While this is hard for a player to prove 100%, I believe the OP mentioned things like "Observing several 49's leaving just before the end, repeatedly."

So as you say, twinks are not an exploit, nor is the concept of twinking being discussed here.

As "benefits" are subjective, one could make an argument that these Infinite Twinks (the act of remaining a twink indefinitely)are benefiting in personal reasons (ie. E-peen, Roflstomping, etc...), and that the act of -not- getting conventional rewards allows them to continue receiving their own personal benefits. If their personal benfits are disruptive to others, and are not part of natural gameplay, then it's a problem.

TL-DR: Twinks aren't exploits, Staying a Twink indefinitely is. That's what's being argued and you are arguing using missunderstood terms/concepts.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.02.2012 , 05:35 PM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
You are correct, twinking is not an exploit, and no one has said it is.

The exploit comes with indefinite twinking, which is done/caused by leaving a warzone before the end, to avoid the rewards. While this is hard for a player to prove 100%, I believe the OP mentioned things like "Observing several 49's leaving just before the end, repeatedly."

So as you say, twinks are not an exploit, nor is the concept of twinking being discussed here.

As "benefits" are subjective, one could make an argument that these Infinite Twinks (the act of remaining a twink indefinitely)are benefiting in personal reasons (ie. E-peen, Roflstomping, etc...), and that the act of -not- getting conventional rewards allows them to continue receiving their own personal benefits. If their personal benfits are disruptive to others, and are not part of natural gameplay, then it's a problem.

TL-DR: Twinks aren't exploits, Staying a Twink indefinitely is. That's what's being argued and you are arguing using missunderstood terms/concepts.
staying a twink indefinitely is not an exploit. if someone wants to leave a warzone every time so they dont level up to 50, where PvP actually has some semblance of meaning, thats their own choice. maybe they werent hugged enough as a child and enjoy trolling people in video games, it doesnt matter why they do it.

you get XP regardless of winning or losing. eventually, by finishing warzones you will leave the sub-50 bracket, and never have to see those evil infinite twinkers again. if you cant handle bullies on the interwebz, i dont know what to tell you. it is not bioware's job to make sure nobody ever hurts your feelings by repeatedly beating you in a warzone.

if youre whining this much about a gear imbalance in the sub-50 bracket, i cant imagine what your opinion of 50 pvp is.


enough of the whining. either finish grinding your wzs to get to 50, or level a different way. its not like the wzs are too complicated to figure out after a couple of warzones in the 50 brackter

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.02.2012 , 06:41 PM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
staying a twink indefinitely is not an exploit. if someone wants to leave a warzone every time so they dont level up to 50, where PvP actually has some semblance of meaning, thats their own choice. maybe they werent hugged enough as a child and enjoy trolling people in video games, it doesnt matter why they do it.

you get XP regardless of winning or losing. eventually, by finishing warzones you will leave the sub-50 bracket, and never have to see those evil infinite twinkers again. if you cant handle bullies on the interwebz, i dont know what to tell you. it is not bioware's job to make sure nobody ever hurts your feelings by repeatedly beating you in a warzone.

if youre whining this much about a gear imbalance in the sub-50 bracket, i cant imagine what your opinion of 50 pvp is.


enough of the whining. either finish grinding your wzs to get to 50, or level a different way. its not like the wzs are too complicated to figure out after a couple of warzones in the 50 brackter
Ugh... I had a long explanation and it didn't go through.

You don't recognize me it seems from the "Premade" thread, where 1 of my 3 main points is pretty much "Man up, gear up, group up." But as I've stated before, this isn't an issue that really bothers me. I respect the OP's right to bring it up if they like, if it is one that bothers them.

Where I take issue, (and thus keep posting) is people not calling something for what it is. I (and others) have posted several source documents, including the ToS, to better define this as an abuse of the system (ie, exploit.)

I don't have the drive to retype everything, so I'll go over it quickly:

According to the ToS, you are in violation if you "Abuse or Exploit: Bugs, Undocumented Featues, Design Flaws, and Problems in the game."

Not all exploits are bugs, as you can see the ToS clearly states you can exploit multiple things.

Finally, there is the logical progression of the game. The game mechanic "Leave Warzone" has other legitmate uses (Leaving a warzone for emergencies, disconnects, other content, or because you don't like your group), and it's use to stop from gaining exp clearly goes against the game's natural progression pre 50 (Particpate in Task > Complete > Reward/Exp> Level).

I'd wager that -if- there was an intention for players to stay 49 as long as they want, there would be a feature included in the game with -that- specific purpose stated. (Ie. WoW's toggle exp off feature.)

No matter which side I fall on the issue, using documents from EA/BW and logic any one should be able to determine this is an abuse of the "Leave Warzone" feature's byproduct and not it's intention... or "exploiting" a design flaw.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.02.2012 , 07:08 PM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
*snip*
i saw your post of the ToS earlier in this thread. this kind of infinite twinking provides no tangible in-game reward, and the average person should be able to maintain their composure enough to not rage at someone in their wz who is using an "infinite twink" toon.

the people who do that are clearly doing it to troll others, and are obviously getting a rise out of a lot of people (this thread is direct evidence of that). if people dont react, they dont get the satisfaction of trolling folks, and have to find another way to take out their angst for not being hugged enough.

thats the only "reward" these twinkers get; they enjoy making people mad. its pvp, if you start saying its against the rules to do things that upset other players through PvP, where does it end?


a nice solution to this, and something that is needed in 50 wzs as well, is a lockout timer for leaving a warzone early. 15minutes locked out from queuing. it will not eliminate the problem 100%, but it would make playing an "infinite twink" character much more difficult.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.02.2012 , 07:18 PM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
i saw your post of the ToS earlier in this thread. this kind of infinite twinking provides no tangible in-game reward, and the average person should be able to maintain their composure enough to not rage at someone in their wz who is using an "infinite twink" toon.

the people who do that are clearly doing it to troll others, and are obviously getting a rise out of a lot of people (this thread is direct evidence of that). if people dont react, they dont get the satisfaction of trolling folks, and have to find another way to take out their angst for not being hugged enough.

thats the only "reward" these twinkers get; they enjoy making people mad. its pvp, if you start saying its against the rules to do things that upset other players through PvP, where does it end?


a nice solution to this, and something that is needed in 50 wzs as well, is a lockout timer for leaving a warzone early. 15minutes locked out from queuing. it will not eliminate the problem 100%, but it would make playing an "infinite twink" character much more difficult.
Tangible reward or not, they do it for a reason. The ToS itself never says it has to be for a reward, simply the act of doing so can be against the ToS.

I don't quite agree with the lockout timer for a number of reasons that have been stated in another thread, I think the medals giving exp would be enough if they decided to do anything about it. It can be rebalanced. (Wz's give 10% less exp, medals make up that 10%).

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.02.2012 , 07:25 PM | #329
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Tangible reward or not, they do it for a reason. The ToS itself never says it has to be for a reward, simply the act of doing so can be against the ToS.

I don't quite agree with the lockout timer for a number of reasons that have been stated in another thread, I think the medals giving exp would be enough if they decided to do anything about it. It can be rebalanced. (Wz's give 10% less exp, medals make up that 10%).
that would solve the problem, but i would prefer bioware did not spend dev time on it; there are better ways for them to spend their resources.

the people doing this infinite twink thing are clearly a large minority. i have yet to see one while leveling my commando (i have done nothing but wzs and class quest, currently leve 37). i dont think that such a sweeping change is necessary to deal with such a small minority of miscreants.

if bioware deems it to be an exploit, ban them if they are caught doing it repeatedly. that is the least resource intensive solution, and i could care less how severe the penalty is since i dont do it.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
12.03.2012 , 07:01 AM | #330
Reading all this crying... think I'll create marauder and assassin just for lowbie pvp, twink them aroun L41+ and leave them maxed at L 49 with pruple auguments and components, just to piss off op and every twinker hater... just for lols, siths and giggles

on other hand, it's a waste of time, so not gonna happen.
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