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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

Eldriq's Avatar


Eldriq
12.01.2012 , 09:24 PM | #301
The OP is not asking for the pre 49ers to be tortured to death all she is asking for is that you get experience as you go through the warzone. The only real complaint that seems to come from this is the whole bot debate thing which I will leave to greater minds to figure out. Out side of that it seems to be a moral issue that is being debated of whether it is right for them to do this. I would like to see the experience and comms being rewarded as the match goes on as well as it would help when you get DCed in the middle of the warzone. Who has not been hit by that?
El'drik - Sorcerer- War Hero - Harbinger Server Care Bear/White Knight
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. Friedrich Nietzsche

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.01.2012 , 10:29 PM | #302
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Except that ToS is a generic form that EA uses in all their games. Hence why the language in it is so generic, and it uses terms like EA services, instead of saying SWTOR. The gem that is the ToS also includes:

"- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements. "

I guess according to the ToS, we'll all be banned for camping people in open world pvp or mass invading an opposite faction's base. Funny thing is, I remember there was a post long ago about a GM threatening to ban a bunch of players who invaded Aurek base, using the "disrupting gameplay" from the ToS as a reason to ban them. Well BW apologized for that GM.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...38#post4475137

In conclusion, the people who are actually responsible in determining what is bannable or not, and does the actual banning is BioWare, regardless of what the ToS says. BW has the final say in these matters. Thus, I will take BW's defition of what an exploit is, over EA's.
Alright, just did my homework on this and I'm trying not to laugh myself to death Smashy.

For that part of the ToS, Open World PvP and "Ganking" is normal flow of game play on a PvP server, and not covered by the ToS. If you had a way to do it on a PvE server (Like found an quest npc you could kill, and kept camping it) there may be an issue.

Secondly, Bioware apologized for the issue on Hoth for the GM's actions, which were not in keeping with Bioware's standards. The GM contact people via /say which is a no no... he threatened accounts, and possibly even tampered with evidence. The apology was also to those who were accused of fake claims, as the original investigation suggested. The GM was disciplined for his rogue actions, and clearly was acting this way without their approval.

Apology quoted below:

Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez
Hi everyone, I just wanted to start off by apologizing to the people that brought this issue to our attention. Our investigation teams looked very carefully through logs to see if any of the reported chat had occurred but for reasons that are currently unknown, it did not appear in the initial investigation. After verification from the teams, I came on here with the information that I had at the time. However, since then, a separate internal investigation has found evidence that this did, in fact, occur and the CS agent involved will be dealt with accordingly.

Again, I apologize to anyone affected. To those players impacted by this issue, you will be receiving personal calls from our Customer Service team shortly to review the situation and receive a personal apology.

Please enjoy the rest of your weekend.
So your little story -still- does not disqualify the ToS's version of exploits.

Further more, your "Bioware's definition" of exploits is wrong. Upon rereading the article Busting Bug's and Fixing Exploits it is (1) older than the ToS, which I believe we all recently re-agreed to when F2P hit, and (2) is a narrow article specificly dealing with bugs and exploits due to bugs. Never does it say all exploits are bugs, and it also shows not all bugs are exploits. This is not a broad enough article to make a definiton from, and it is not as recent or as actionable as the ToS.

I also would like to bring in the Ilum Exploit, which is around the same time as your article. Ilum PvP Issues. Notice they never refer to the exceptional valor gain as a bug, and only comment on it as "Unintended by the design team."

In that case, only the worst offenders had action taken against them, even though Bioware determined the use of Ilum's unitended design flaws was against the ToS. Could they have taken action against -everyone- who stepped foot on Ilum that day... yes. Yet they didn't, because Bioware and EA can enforce the ToS at their discretion... the wonders of having your own little empire lol.

-.- so again, We will probably not get an answer from Bioware if it is considered and exploit, and it may not even be "fixed" for some time as it's not an -emergency.- Neither one of us can prove what Bioware thinks, and we're left to logical reasoning and the few documents we do have. By the ToS and through logic, this is an exploit.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.01.2012 , 10:33 PM | #303
Quote: Originally Posted by Seena View Post
Obviously it hasn't affected you to any degree. It has affected multiple people in this thread (hence the creation of the thread) - and likely will be a issue that contnues to affect people more and more. (If the pattern on my server continues, which I suspect it will.) I'm glad it hasn't affected you (no sarcasm or acrimony there only sincerity) But it has and is affecting others. It is preventing some lower levels from PvPing (not saying that some people quit and get frustrated FAR too easily - they do imo. BUT they should never do it over someone else's exploit.) - THAT is inexcusable and DEMANDS a fix.

...

Thank-you for your thoughtful input.
I wish I had as much to post back, but all I can say is I respect your right to advocate against this issue, and you are correct that you have a right to present it as much as I have a right to present any of my "top" issues. I only state my opinion on the importance of this issue and it simply that, my opinion.

Hopefully I have not appeared as if I am trying to stop you from doing so.

beattlebilly's Avatar


beattlebilly
12.02.2012 , 10:05 AM | #304
I guess PvP'ing in MMO's in general has made me a cynical person, but if I see the same exact people several times over the course of a couple hours of PvP'ing leaving lowbie WZ's when they are lvl 49, I am not going to give them the benefit of the doubt. ESPECIALLY knowing the types of players they are through observing them in WZ's(only targeting lowbies, fighting people near their level only because they attacked them first, leaving nodes after capping them to be taken by the enemy, knowing the guilds they are in, etc....) . But sorry, I don't need to videotape these people to know W T F they are doing(and I have asked a few, and gotten the response that they don't want to go to 50, so it's not like I have no reason to make the assumptions I am making). If it was isolated incidents and/or I see these people later on in 50 PvP when I'm on my 50's, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.02.2012 , 11:03 AM | #305
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
I wish I had as much to post back, but all I can say is I respect your right to advocate against this issue, and you are correct that you have a right to present it as much as I have a right to present any of my "top" issues. I only state my opinion on the importance of this issue and it simply that, my opinion.

Hopefully I have not appeared as if I am trying to stop you from doing so.
No you didn't - a tad dismissive at times, but you didn't at all sound like you were trying to stop posting.

It's all good. Again I appreciate all your comments. Good to have someone so articulate on the forums.
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Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.02.2012 , 11:04 AM | #306
Quote: Originally Posted by beattlebilly View Post
I guess PvP'ing in MMO's in general has made me a cynical person, but if I see the same exact people several times over the course of a couple hours of PvP'ing leaving lowbie WZ's when they are lvl 49, I am not going to give them the benefit of the doubt. ESPECIALLY knowing the types of players they are through observing them in WZ's(only targeting lowbies, fighting people near their level only because they attacked them first, leaving nodes after capping them to be taken by the enemy, knowing the guilds they are in, etc....) . But sorry, I don't need to videotape these people to know W T F they are doing(and I have asked a few, and gotten the response that they don't want to go to 50, so it's not like I have no reason to make the assumptions I am making). If it was isolated incidents and/or I see these people later on in 50 PvP when I'm on my 50's, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

The entire exploit was explained to me by someone preparing to use the exploit in answer to those exploiting. That's how I learned about it.

So no reason to give these people the benefit of the doubt - there is no doubt.
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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.02.2012 , 11:35 AM | #307
twinking is not an exploit.

stop crying, finish leveling, and then you can PvP at 50.


tho, im 100% certain that the people complaining about twinks will be coming back to the forums to complain about gear gaps in the 50 bracket.

Durasturan's Avatar


Durasturan
12.02.2012 , 12:21 PM | #308
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
We have a fair bit of twinks on Bastion and it's kind of annoying. I could see it being a bigger problem if any of these guys were actually good. These twinks are constantly out performed by good players leveling alts in moderate gear. But in lowbie PvP where there are very few solid players I definitely see a problem.

I find it annoying because not only do they gear to the gills which NO ONE is doing sub 50 other than these guys... which is just one advantage on top of having a ton more key abilities than most of the other players. But that's why they do it... they know they aren't as good as many of the other players so they find a place where they can "dominate". It boosts their internet ego. Instead of improving their game play and getting to the next level of PvP... they'd rather abuse the system and let the gear do the work while their skills remain moderate.

Anyways, kind of ranted but I do see the issue especially considering the level of play in lowbie PvP. Any fix is a good one. I'd say give them XP throughout the match WHILE it's going. Got a medal? Well you just got XP.
Lol. Your idea at the end is absolutely silly. You do realize that if you gave out significant experience for medals, then the vast majority of players that simply PVP because it's the easiest XP in the game would just play until they got their 8 medals and then leave and requeue... Your idea would create a monstrously huge problem for EVERYONE to prevent something that is so rare I have only encountered ONE person doing it in the YEAR I've been playing this game.

beattlebilly's Avatar


beattlebilly
12.02.2012 , 12:50 PM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
stop crying, finish leveling, and then you can PvP at 50.
That's not a proper solution:

Quote: Originally Posted by beattlebilly View Post
The sub-50 bracket isn't irrelevant. There is a reason a game doesn't automatically start people off with toons at max level, skills, and talents, they need to level to learn their class as they go. If they are PvP'ers they learn their class by PvP'ing. And from some of the clueless(not bads, but actually clueless about what to do in the WZ or with their class) people I've seen in 50 PvP, sub-50 PvP is very relevant and they should have been doing some sub-50 PvP if only to know W T F to do with their class and in the WZ.
I can just see it now, 50 bracket getting flooded with incompetent PvP'ers(hell of a lot more than they have now) and all you PvP'ers that piss on lowbie PvP would be whining about the huge crop of idiot 50's PvP'ing LOL

Personally, for an issue like this, if it is effecting people enough that they will "complain" about it, I don't see anything wrong with "complaining" about it. Or more accurately bringing attention to it and try to get some kind of solution for it. If it wasn't for the extreme differences in levels in the lowbie warzones, I wouldn't really care that much.

Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
tho, im 100% certain that the people complaining about twinks will be coming back to the forums to complain about gear gaps in the 50 bracket.
I have three 50's and working on a 4th. I've never complained on the forums about the gear gap and never will(only grumble when I'm PvP'ing) Only other thing I've complained about that is even remotely related to this is the inconsistent rewards from warzones.
The BastionThe Dynamite LegacySix Sith Bag

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.02.2012 , 01:11 PM | #310
Quote: Originally Posted by beattlebilly View Post
Personally, for an issue like this, if it is effecting people enough that they will "complain" about it, I don't see anything wrong with "complaining" about it. Or more accurately bringing attention to it and try to get some kind of solution for it. If it wasn't for the extreme differences in levels in the lowbie warzones, I wouldn't really care that much.



I have three 50's and working on a 4th. I've never complained on the forums about the gear gap and never will(only grumble when I'm PvP'ing) Only other thing I've complained about that is even remotely related to this is the inconsistent rewards from warzones.
I have two level 50's. One is fully geared WH the other partially (rest BM gear). My shadow is level 47 - almost 48. I've never complained about a gear gap either (or anything PvP related actually) Go figure.

Oh and as for the number of twinks encountered - we have a hell of a lot more than one.
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