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Vanguard Tank PvP


unluckyperson's Avatar


unluckyperson
11.27.2012 , 04:01 PM | #11
I'm kind of curious would it be worth it to get the damage reduction from both the shield tree and the tactics tree?

For something like this. Granted there are still 4 other points i didn't allocate because I'm not sure what to do with, and I'm only level 33 so I don't know what would be a great build.

Also I know the absorption rate bonus from Ceramic Plating isn't great, but I was thinking about getting the benefit of the 1 minute CD reduction. I don't know how beneficial Adrenaline Rush is.

Again I'm just curious what you all think, as I'm still very inexperienced.

althene's Avatar


althene
12.01.2012 , 07:39 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by unluckyperson View Post
I'm kind of curious would it be worth it to get the damage reduction from both the shield tree and the tactics tree?

For something like this. Granted there are still 4 other points i didn't allocate because I'm not sure what to do with, and I'm only level 33 so I don't know what would be a great build.

Also I know the absorption rate bonus from Ceramic Plating isn't great, but I was thinking about getting the benefit of the 1 minute CD reduction. I don't know how beneficial Adrenaline Rush is.

Again I'm just curious what you all think, as I'm still very inexperienced.
That honestly looks like a variation on the old IronFist build. If you have 4 points left over, 1 point in Storm is mandatory for a build like this, in my opinion. After that, maybe 2 points in the shared tree to leverage the damage you're getting from stockstrike, especially considering this is one of your core abilities. That last point could certainly go into caramic plating as a 30 second CD reduction on your only healing ability isn't a bad thing. Another option is 1 point in Static Surge to pick up that free AoE blast when you charge into a group (it also has the added bonus of reducing the damage done by all opponents hit buy it). Static Shield isn't really a bad option if you're trying to leverage even more stockstrike hits, but since you aren't really stacking shield rating for PvP anyway, it's use is quite limited.

unluckyperson's Avatar


unluckyperson
12.02.2012 , 05:17 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by althene View Post
That honestly looks like a variation on the old IronFist build.
You are correct, the build is a variation of sorts on the Iron Fist build which I know is not viable anymore. At the time I posted this, I had found the Iron Fist build as an example of a vanguard tank build. I read some amount of material on tanking and I was trying to think of a way to maintain the higher damage mitigation.

I was debating between 2 points in Shield Cycler or 2 points in Ceramic Plating, I didn't realize what i posted was 2 points in Shield Cycler. So the obvious thought process behind Shield Cycler is that it could be useful to recharge ammunition. However that's unreliable in PvP at best. Ceramic Plating is . . . not much better because of the absorption buff, but the immediate and constant benefit is Adrenaline Rush . . . which I have no idea how useful it is in PvP.

The one thing I am confused about your response though is when you say:
Quote: Originally Posted by althene View Post
After that, maybe 2 points in the shared tree to leverage the damage you're getting from stockstrike, especially considering this is one of your core abilities.
I don't think I know exactly what you're talking about. I believe you're referring to Heavy Stock. I'm just not sure if it's useful because when experimenting with builds I noticed without Static Shield I get a lot less use out of Shockstrike.

Quote: Originally Posted by althene View Post
Another option is 1 point in Static Surge to pick up that free AoE blast when you charge into a group (it also has the added bonus of reducing the damage done by all opponents hit buy it). Static Shield isn't really a bad option if you're trying to leverage even more stockstrike hits, but since you aren't really stacking shield rating for PvP anyway, it's use is quite limited.
I've found when experimenting with the build that TipsyDrow posted, earlier in the thread, that the lack of Storm is really annoying. I also find I have trouble with maintaining ammunition levels, which is one thing that I like about Static Surge, it gives me some time to recharge while I blast off some AoE. However I don't know if this is a playstyle problem or if it's because I'm simply not high enough in levels yet.

I really don't know what to say about Static Shield. I love it in PvE (mostly because it works a lot), but in PvP I don't see my shield go off much. I mostly just get stunned to death. I also don't really know what is good equipment for PvP as a tank because stacking shield isn't particularly useful, probably better than stacking dodge since you don't get interrupted, but it's not the best option. Stacking defense in PvP, is similar to stacking shield. So other than Aim, Endurance, and Expertise I really don't know what I should be aiming for.

I believe Alacrity may be very useful . . . but I already have trouble maintaining ammunition, if I get a lot of alacrity I don't see how that would help my problem. Though again I do have to admit, there may be a problem with my rotation.

Again thank you for your time and input.

JarenWelen's Avatar


JarenWelen
12.06.2012 , 09:42 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TipsyDrow View Post
This is what I run in pvp.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GoMMZMsrrobfkds.2
4 piece supercommando for set bonus,supercommando weapon and shield. Everything else is DPS.
30% Damage reduction against AOE's passive,30% damage reduction while stunned.16 seconds of immunity to slows,roots and such every minute plus 30% speed increase.....the survival benefits of the tactics tree for a tank are amazing and a ton more damage output so if some silly mara decides to assault your healer, you CAN put him down. If a single anything tries to take my healer out they end up dead or running away. I DO get focused alot by good players though. It's not uncommon for me to have 3-4 beating on me. This build isn't for everyone it requires a very active and agressive playstyle to maxamize it's benefits.
Interesting build, going to have another look tomorrow when I'm a bit more awake. Looking at the talent choices I'm guessing you always run this in Ion Cell?
Also although I completely agree the SuperCommando 4pc set bonus is fantastic, if not perfect, for this build, do you think the benefits of having it with a useless 2pc bonus plus the extra endurance outweigh the CT gear set bonuses?
Jaren Welen :: Vigilant || Ambassador Welen :: Infiltrator
Zekken :: Tactician || Jainie :: Seer || Vespe :: Scrapper
Jedge :: Sharpshooter || Zeckary :: Annihilator || Myn :: Madman

iDubstep's Avatar


iDubstep
12.19.2012 , 10:20 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by TipsyDrow View Post
This is what I run in pvp.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GoMMZMsrrobfkds.2
4 piece supercommando for set bonus,supercommando weapon and shield. Everything else is DPS.
30% Damage reduction against AOE's passive,30% damage reduction while stunned.16 seconds of immunity to slows,roots and such every minute plus 30% speed increase.....the survival benefits of the tactics tree for a tank are amazing and a ton more damage output so if some silly mara decides to assault your healer, you CAN put him down. If a single anything tries to take my healer out they end up dead or running away. I DO get focused alot by good players though. It's not uncommon for me to have 3-4 beating on me. This build isn't for everyone it requires a very active and agressive playstyle to maxamize it's benefits.
This looks like it would fit my play style very well if I can survive without Storm. I've been running a PVP Tank Spec in Combat Tech gear which I'll keep equipped while I try it out tonight. I think it will work beautifully, I already have the keybinds remapped in my head. The slow/root resists and stunned damage reductions I think are going to greatly improve my enjoyment in PvP and I've been looking to do some more damage while still get those protection numbers.

EDIT: Do you think taking 2 points in Heavy Stock instead of Re-braced Armor would affect the PvP viability of this build? Also, what is the do you think is the most important out power, surge and crit? The build looks nice with a traited auto-crit and 30% surge bonus so I was thinking stacking power with a balanced amount of surge and crit.

Thanks,
Confident Hero - Jedi Covenant

NurseDonut's Avatar


NurseDonut
12.21.2012 , 10:46 AM | #16
I've been running 8/31/2 for the last few days. I switch back and forth between high energy cell when I need more damage and ion cell when someone needs to be guarded. I wear the combat tech set. Still trying to decide between a shield or a generator.

It's fun. Decent damage. It's versatile. It's mobile. And it reduces smash damage by 37%, making swarming smashmonkeys just mildly unbearable rather than totally overwhelming.

I think it's a better PvP "tank" build than going far up the shield tree. Shield is very PvE focused. The only thing I miss is Storm, and Hold the Line is reasonable substitute. And I have the added benefit of being able to drop people, especially with Pulse Generator when they gang up on my guarded target.

It's probably not as effective as assault, but I'm bored of assault.

Kormad's Avatar


Kormad
12.24.2012 , 04:40 PM | #17
What I would love to see in the new Expansion is an added ability in our tree that enables us to cleanse Force and Tech effects on us. I have a lot of experience with 1v1'ing other classes-Vanguard Tanks (in full tank gear and with 31 points in the tank tree) can easily take down a skilled Shadow/Assassin and a Focus/Rage Guardian or Juggernaut. The biggest class I have a problem with is Balance Sages-I can't do anything to mitigate their dots. So give me the ability to cleanse it and I'm happy.

Something like this, in terms of what the ability would do-

Envigor-Cleanses yourself of up to two negative Force or Tech effects. Cooldown is 25 seconds.

That's all I want in terms of my Skill Tree in the expansion. It's basically like a healer's cleanse, but you can only use it on yourself.
Guerrilla
Author and Casual PvP'er
Rilana | Courmac | Avnen | Jyen | Reignition

cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
12.25.2012 , 05:56 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Azrienov View Post
I don't feel like this has a point anymore. Shield spec is pretty bad to be honest in PvP, because your shield won't absorb more than half the attacks thrown at it. The biggest damage attacks go through your armor as well... it's AWESOME.

This is the point where they need to take at least a little learning from WAR. They finished running that game into the ground, so it's no big deal if they do this now anyway.

Shields should block EVERYTHING. That's right. If a squirrel runs up to me, I need to have a 50% chance of punting him back with high powered deflector shielding. It doesn't necessarily need to absorb ALL the damage flat out, but for the sake of the class, this spec needs to soak up damage in PvP because it CANNOT deal it like a Tankasin or even a Jugg.
Pure tanks are useless in pvp, anyone who knows the pvp mechanics should know this. Shield only protects against white damage, which means anyone doing MOSTLY elemental damage( BH DPS), force damage( Sorceror and Assasin) , and tech(operative) will completely go passed your shield and ignore your armor. the only tank that is viable in pvp is a hybrid,, built to deal damage and survive fights.

As a vanguard tank hybrid, you need to focus on buffing your elemental dmg while still be able to use the tank stance.
"Sarcasm is strong in this one"

Spatology's Avatar


Spatology
12.25.2012 , 08:51 PM | #19
Shield spec with the combat tech set works wonders. Say no to static surge and take more utility. I'm not a pvp person mainly, however ideally I would take combat tech mods with super commando shells. Keep storm on CD outside of hutball (I keep it open to try and intercept or storm to the goal line), the ability hits decently, interrupts, and has no ammo cost.

I pvp in my off time an wreck faces. Enjoy!

Skyhigh's Avatar


Skyhigh
12.28.2012 , 01:29 PM | #20
I run a full shield spec with supercommando ewh/wh.....I find myself to be very effective and relevant in pvp.