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Caedus vs Yoda


BrandonSM

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Thought I posted here already but maybe I got logged out:

 

Neither of them is small-time. Yoda has years of experience, but Jacen had been fighting in wars since he was a kid, and against enemies with a unique strength against force-sensitives that even Sith don't possess.

Both have tricks up their sleeves, but Caedus may have the edge here given just how many rare techniques he came across in his journies.

Even if Yoda is stronger in the Force, I think we can all agree that, Force-enhancement aside, Caedus is physically far stronger than Yoda, and that does count for something.

As was said, Luke is the most powerful Jedi by that era, and Caedus held his own (though granted it didn't exactly go well) against Luke for a while.

 

Overall, then, I'd give the edge to Caedus, except for one thing----Caedus will soon be retconned out of existence, while Yoda never will be. So I guess Yoda wins by default!

 

^^ This ^^

 

You make a logical argument.

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Thought I posted here already but maybe I got logged out:

 

Neither of them is small-time. Yoda has years of experience, but Jacen had been fighting in wars since he was a kid, and against enemies with a unique strength against force-sensitives that even Sith don't possess.

Both have tricks up their sleeves, but Caedus may have the edge here given just how many rare techniques he came across in his journies.

Even if Yoda is stronger in the Force, I think we can all agree that, Force-enhancement aside, Caedus is physically far stronger than Yoda, and that does count for something.

As was said, Luke is the most powerful Jedi by that era, and Caedus held his own (though granted it didn't exactly go well) against Luke for a while.

 

Overall, then, I'd give the edge to Caedus, except for one thing----Caedus will soon be retconned out of existence, while Yoda never will be. So I guess Yoda wins by default!

 

Sideous though probably had significantly more knowledge of Sith tricks than Caedus though, Luke Skywalker actually would have killed Caedus in the book Inferno, he only stopped because of something that Ben Skywalker said, and Luke knew that if he killed Caedus then, he'd lose his son to the darkside.

 

Then in Invincible, Luke refused to go after Caedus because Luke was afraid he wanted it too much, he was afraid he'd go over to the darkside (yes Caedus would die in the process), and become something even worse than Caedus.

 

Darth Caedus nearly got killed by Mara Jade Skywalker, he only barely won, he got the stuffing beat out of him by Luke Skywalker, and would have been killed if not for Ben being in danger of falling to the darkside. Hell, Caedus nearly ended up getting impaled by Ben, and only reason he didn't was Lowbacca's bad timing.

 

Even if Caedus was stronger in the force than Sideous, he also pulled a lot of stupid stunts that if not for other people's idiocy or bad timing, or someone's kid being emotionally unstable, would have gotten him killed many times over his brief reign. I think Yoda would have won, regardless of whether or not Caedus was stronger in the force, because Caedus made more stupid mistakes in his brief reign than Sideous did over his entire lifetime.

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Sideous though probably had significantly more knowledge of Sith tricks than Caedus though, Luke Skywalker actually would have killed Caedus in the book Inferno, he only stopped because of something that Ben Skywalker said, and Luke knew that if he killed Caedus then, he'd lose his son to the darkside.

 

This is true. I didn't say Caedus completely dominated, though. I said he held his own for a while, and he did. Also in this particular case he was ambushed by Luke and had to fight against two people in the dark. Sidious probably did have more knowledge of specifically Sith tricks, but the tricks that Caedus learned weren't just Sith ones.

 

Darth Caedus nearly got killed by Mara Jade Skywalker, he only barely won, he got the stuffing beat out of him by Luke Skywalker, and would have been killed if not for Ben being in danger of falling to the darkside. Hell, Caedus nearly ended up getting impaled by Ben, and only reason he didn't was Lowbacca's bad timing.

 

All true, but how does this relate to Yoda specifically? Very few Sith would last long against both Luke and a pissed off Ben. Also as I recall, Caedus left himself open because he was trying to tempt Ben into attacking him. As for Mara Jade, she was a skilled assassin---but you make a good point. He just barely got out of that alive. Probably because he was too confident in his ability to manipulate Mara into letting him live. Nevertheless, he did win.

 

Even if Caedus was stronger in the force than Sideous, he also pulled a lot of stupid stunts that if not for other people's idiocy or bad timing, or someone's kid being emotionally unstable, would have gotten him killed many times over his brief reign. I think Yoda would have won, regardless of whether or not Caedus was stronger in the force, because Caedus made more stupid mistakes in his brief reign than Sideous did over his entire lifetime.

 

Those mistakes were due to arrogance more than plain stupidity. Even Yoda freely admitted that arrogance was one of his flaws (and it got him fried by Sidious at one point). So that was a flaw they both had. Yoda was probably less arrogant because he wasn't a megalomaniac, but it could still cost him, too.

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Remember that Yoda basically walked into a fight with a sith (Palpatine) that he knew nothing about. While we all accept Palpatine is stronger, Yoda would have done a lot better if he'd known what he was getting into (also note that Palpatine had decades to study Yoda), and it seems clear that both Yoda and Obi-wan weren't acting that rationally in the final hours (understandable after having their friends and lives destroyed). Caedus on the other hand was a well known figure, Yoda would know exactly who he was fighting and thus would do a lot better (+ 900 years of experience far outweighs 20 odd).

 

I agree with a previous poster though, likely outcome would be Yoda turning Jacen back to the light.

Edited by Vacarius
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so glad the new trilogy is going to wipe out all this EU garbage. The only thing I liked about the YV was jacen's journey, but they completely ruined the character after that.

 

Do you have proof that the new trilogy will wipe out the EU? Didn't think so. We have no idea what the story the new films will tell, but I am willing to bet the EU remains intact, with a little cleanup to it's continuity. You may not like the EU but it is here to stay.

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Hey, just a reminder. Many say that Caedas gave Luke a run but remember, Luke wasnt trying to KILL Caedus. There is much difference in fight attitude when you are trying to apprehend someone and kill them. Caedus on the other hand, wanted to kill Luke really really really badly but was defeated by someone only trying to capture them.

Just like the fight between Obi and Jango. Obi wanted to capture him while Jango attempted to kill him.

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I would say Yoda. Caedus was arrogant and would soon succumb to stupidity in a long fight.

Dont get me wrong, the fight between Caedus and Luke was possibly the most entertaining and the best written fight i have ever read, but the Mara fight between Caedus showed that Caedus needed unexpected tricks (worthy to be called a Sith) while Yoda would simply use the force. What Caedus knows that Yoda does not though because of the fight between Mara was an unusual Jedi vs Sith fight of physicality. Jedi just didnt fight with barehands, bite, scratch, punch. Yoda was civilized in his fighting which in fact could be his downfall.

 

Not to mention, Yoda may have been strong in the force but he was the Grandmaster Jedi when the Jedi order collapsed and destroy by the Sith.

 

Still One vs One in a middle of a sale... Yoda. And definately Yoda if Yoda succumbed to the darkside.

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Hey, just a reminder. Many say that Caedas gave Luke a run but remember, Luke wasnt trying to KILL Caedus. There is much difference in fight attitude when you are trying to apprehend someone and kill them. Caedus on the other hand, wanted to kill Luke really really really badly but was defeated by someone only trying to capture them.

Just like the fight between Obi and Jango. Obi wanted to capture him while Jango attempted to kill him.

 

Caedus still managed to block all of Luke's attempts to disarm him, the same tricks he used to disarm Reborn Palpatine, Caedus actually had him on the all-out defensive four times, almost nobody manages that, he even managed to block Luke's attempts through the force to control him and temper his hate.

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Caedus still managed to block all of Luke's attempts to disarm him, the same tricks he used to disarm Reborn Palpatine, Caedus actually had him on the all-out defensive four times, almost nobody manages that, he even managed to block Luke's attempts through the force to control him and temper his hate.

 

bah.. I'll slap both of them right now :p

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We are never going to know how strong Yoda actually was. He was probably THE posterchild for the light side of the force. I guarantee you there were things he knew and could do, that would blow everyone's mind, however he refused to do it, due to the fact that he was soooooo light side. Even in the movies, Duku and Palpatine himself, were only a match for yoda, they never beat him. The duel with Palpatine, imho yoda just gave up. If yoda completely cuts loose and goes 100 percent (which I don't think we have ever seen, i think at the most we have seen 60 percent of what yoda could really do) yoda would wipe the floor with any other force user out there.
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We are never going to know how strong Yoda actually was. He was probably THE posterchild for the light side of the force. I guarantee you there were things he knew and could do, that would blow everyone's mind, however he refused to do it, due to the fact that he was soooooo light side. Even in the movies, Duku and Palpatine himself, were only a match for yoda, they never beat him. The duel with Palpatine, imho yoda just gave up. If yoda completely cuts loose and goes 100 percent (which I don't think we have ever seen, i think at the most we have seen 60 percent of what yoda could really do) yoda would wipe the floor with any other force user out there.

 

That's a decent argument, but there's some speculation involved here.

 

Why would Yoda only go 60% of his power against Sidious? That just doesn't make since. Yoda would have given it all in that fight.

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That's a decent argument, but there's some speculation involved here.

 

Why would Yoda only go 60% of his power against Sidious? That just doesn't make since. Yoda would have given it all in that fight.

 

When you spend however many hundred years of something, just instinctually holding back, you just cant deprogram yourself to just flip a switch and change it. I guarantee you, if yoda could fully tap into his force knowledge, and beat sidious, but that meant him delving a teeeeensy bit into quasi=darkside, he would have never done it.

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Caedus, he is just that powerful.

 

Kyle Katarn wasn't even considered powerful enough to deal with Darth Caedus, only Luke himself was seen as his match.

 

^^this.

 

And I would also like to add that I was very disappointed with the way they killed off Darth Caedus. I mean all that backstory and all that talk of destiny and then he just die like that...

 

When you spend however many hundred years of something, just instinctually holding back, you just cant deprogram yourself to just flip a switch and change it. I guarantee you, if yoda could fully tap into his force knowledge, and beat sidious, but that meant him delving a teeeeensy bit into quasi=darkside, he would have never done it.

 

Well I can tell you right now that all this speculation about Yoda not going 100 % is wrong. Why? Simple, in the Revenge of the Sith novel (not movie) one get to be inside Yoda's head while he fight Sidious, and when he realize that he can't beat him.

Edited by Inzuher
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Well I can tell you right now that all this speculation about Yoda not going 100 % is wrong. Why? Simple, in the Revenge of the Sith novel (not movie) one get to be inside Yoda's head while he fight Sidious, and when he realize that he can't beat him.

 

Agreed, but I don't think Yoda losing to Palpatine makes Caedus stronger than him. After all, since Palpatine is the most powerful sith of all time he must naturally be stronger than Caedus. Blocking a disarm doesn't change this, Luke would be incredibly irresponsible not to have taught this to his top jedi.

 

I also don't think Kyle Katarn being unable to defeat Caedus is of relevance. It would only be important if we knew how Yoda would do against Katarn. If Katarn beats Yoda (I don't think he would) then Caedus would beat him too (baring specific technique/knowledge advantages the other). If not, then we're back where we started.

Edited by Vacarius
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I am Caedus, flowwalk back to when yoda was training, watch his techniques. The fast forward to Yoda as a Jedi master fighting Dooku. Flow-walking would even help in their duel, example is how the Horn daughter did when she had that psychosis. Or use his shatterpoint on yoda. We must also consider that since he is a scion of the skywalker line , he has a greater force potential that Yoda AND Palpatine.

 

Don't get me wrong Papatine is my favorite sith but Caedus also has techniques Sidious never learned, cough the White Current. I would personally like it if a company actually made simulations of this like Ultimate Warrior.

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Considering the fact that Caedus lost to his sister I'm going with Yoda. I know people will say that he was anguished toward the end of his fight but it still doesn't account for the fact that she stomping him out before he started thinking of his daughter. Or did I forget how that battle went? It's been almost a year or more since I read the books.

 

Caedus is powerful but I gotta give it to Yoda. Yoda has speed, stature, strength in the force and agility. He was also confident for someone only 2-3 ft tall. Confidence goes a long way when dueling. Caedus was not always confident in his actions, something that Yoda could easily take advantage of.

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You forgot the fact that Jaina is the Sword of The Jedi. And plus if you read the parts where Luke is meditating during the final battle helping Jaina. Caedus was distracted, that alone take down both Jedi and Sith. He in the end sacrificed himself to preserve the life of his child, which was HIS goal. If she died all he did would have been for nothing, the vision he had after he felt Jaina coming to him.

 

Force powers alone his are more diverse than Yoda's, And even if Caedus is disarmed that won't stop him. Yoda is strong but he only uses the basics, to great effect. I think it would be a hard battle, but even with Yoda's speed Caedus' flow walking can counter that. Speed alone cannot beat the Flow-walking.

 

In these situations:

 

Caedus hide in force. Sneak attack.

Yoda senses it, dodges

Caedus uses force

Yoda draws force barrier

Caedus tears through barrier, pushing Yoda towards the wall

Yoda uses augmented speed to escape hitting the wall flips with lightsaber in hand.

Caedus draws his blade, reading himself in the force

Yoda disarms Caedus

Caedus graps the Yoda's lit saber, absorbs energy

Yoda flips backwards and prepares for a force attack

Caedus pulls his lightsaber to him, saluting the venerable Jedi

Yoda rushes forward,

Caedus Flow walked knowing what to expect,

Yoda grips Caedus in the force

Caedus smiles and breaks Yoda's neck

Yoda would never harm a weaponless oponent.

Caedus is smart enough to know Yoda's history since he can flow walk and see Jedi of his grandfather's age.

 

(P.S. Caedus Flow-walked back and saw alot of things like Anakin's appointment to the Council.)

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That's why Darth Sidious literally toyed with him in the Battle of the Senate Tower.

 

Now you're just making things up. Sidious didn't toy with him. If he did, he would have decided to kill Yoda instead.

Yoda withdrew from the fight., but was not beaten as in killed, KO'ed or captured.

No-one knows what Yoda is capable of with no exit, fighting till death. Yoda would hands down defeat Darth Caedus in such a fight.

Edited by Andge
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Now you're just making things up. Sidious didn't toy with him. If he did, he would have decided to kill Yoda instead.

Yoda withdrew from the fight., but was not beaten as in killed, KO'ed or captured.

No-one knows what Yoda is capable of with no exit, fighting till death. Yoda would hands down defeat Darth Caedus in such a fight.

 

Yoda is one powerful Jedi. One of the most powerful Jedi of all time, but he could not beat Sidious. Yoda even acknowledges this. He had prepared the Jedi Order to fight the Sith Empire, not this new breed of Sith. The Banite Sith were incredibly powerful, but also very smart and deceptive. Darth Bane's Rule of Two ensured that the Jedi would lose. Yoda couldn't beat Sidious.

 

As for the fight with Caedus. Yoda wouldn't go down easy, but Caedus would pull it out in the end.

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Now you're just making things up. Sidious didn't toy with him. If he did, he would have decided to kill Yoda instead.

Yoda withdrew from the fight., but was not beaten as in killed, KO'ed or captured.

No-one knows what Yoda is capable of with no exit, fighting till death. Yoda would hands down defeat Darth Caedus in such a fight.

 

Try not to insult people next time you have an argument.

 

Read the official, practically Word of God canon novelization of the Revenge of the Sith, the Yoda vs Sidious battle is done from the POV of Yoda and his mindset, he literally admits to himself that even though he was the greatest champion of the light the Jedi had ever forged, even though he had the experience, wisdom and strength no Jedi had ever seen before, he just didn't have it, he gave it his all against Sidious, but Sidious just half-heartedly swats aside most of his attempts to attack the Emperor, he realises that whilst the Jedi had spent a thousand years preparing to fight the last war and the same enemy, the Sith had spent that time, evolving, growing and becoming more powerful than ever before, he knows he has no chance to defeat the Emperor and that's why he leaves.

Edited by Rayla_Felana
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Try not to insult people next time you have an argument.

 

Try not to make things up, just to win, next time you have an argument.

 

I'm not saying Sidious didn't drive Yoda back. But if Sidious could have killed Yoda, he would. So, no, "toying" is you making things up.

Edited by Andge
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