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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
11.30.2012 , 01:28 PM | #342
I'd like to point out that when Traya killed these "three Jedi Masters" , they were in the middle of severing Meetra Surik from the Force and were, thus, distracted. I'll also point out that Traya can mask herself from detection against Force Users and Force Sensitives. A trick that didn't work on Atris' Handmaidens because they were "numb" to the Force. So, Traya didn't really kill three Jedi Masters in open combat. She, as she usually does, backstabbed them and Force Drained them while they were unprepared. A tactic that wouldn't work on Revan.
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MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 01:33 PM | #343
Quote: Originally Posted by ReiKai View Post
I'd like to point out that when Traya killed these "three Jedi Masters" , they were in the middle of severing Meetra Surik from the Force and were, thus, distracted. I'll also point out that Traya can mask herself from detection against Force Users and Force Sensitives. A trick that didn't work on Atris' Handmaidens because they were "numb" to the Force. So, Traya didn't really kill three Jedi Masters in open combat. She, as she usually does, backstabbed them and Force Drained them while they were unprepared. A tactic that wouldn't work on Revan.
It's over bra'.

K-God has spoken
(I'm gonna start calling you K-God)

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.30.2012 , 01:34 PM | #344
Quote: Originally Posted by ReiKai View Post
I'd like to point out that when Traya killed these "three Jedi Masters" , they were in the middle of severing Meetra Surik from the Force and were, thus, distracted. I'll also point out that Traya can mask herself from detection against Force Users and Force Sensitives. A trick that didn't work on Atris' Handmaidens because they were "numb" to the Force. So, Traya didn't really kill three Jedi Masters in open combat. She, as she usually does, backstabbed them and Force Drained them while they were unprepared. A tactic that wouldn't work on Revan.
The masters were not backstabbed, they were confronted, lectured, and even with their defenses up, aware of Traya's presence, she broke right through them.

That is true, she is visible to non-force sensitives and yet she can still skulk around ever so gracefully.

But this discussion is over.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
11.30.2012 , 08:19 PM | #345
They didn't show much in the way of defenses. She walked in and blasted them against a wall. Then choked and lectured each one in turn, getting in their heads, weakening them. That's what she does. And Zez-Kai-El said she was as "A shadow of the Exile", after stating that it was hard for them to even feel her presence. There wasn't even a fight. They stood there and got wasted. Nvm that, for "Jedi Masters", they really didn't do anything.

Between the KotoR comics and both games, the lore on them is scarce and they never did anything of worth. Being a "Master" doesn't make you obscenely powerful. It had already been stated that when Revan was a Jedi Knight ,he was already them most powerful Jedi of his era.
CE Owner: ...what? I wanted the music. I like music.
Statement: SGRA's - I support them. Do you have a problem with that, Meatbag?

Astorath_grim's Avatar


Astorath_grim
11.30.2012 , 08:22 PM | #346
Traya wins she trianed revan so she knows all he is capable of also she trained Nilihus and sion and so forth so she knows what each is capable of and can probably do most things they can

Ausstig's Avatar


Ausstig
11.30.2012 , 09:05 PM | #347
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I haven't being reading these passed posts, just scanning. So far I haven't found any argument made by either side that sways my decision.

I will however counter one point, if only to protect the integrity of the debate.

Incorrect. The Kaggath was an ancient rite of Sith that pitted the combatants and their respective power bases against each other.
I've yet to see any evidence to suggest that Traya had a couple of battered cruisers and some sith here and there. She inherited the entire Sith Empire.


[I]Not according to the game[/I]


And unless the Republic managed to wipe out the Empire, which may I mention was winning the war, in the space of a year[/I],

[I]Which it did.



then much of it remained when Traya took the mantle.
(lol, I actually have the power to do that)
But there is evidence; ITS KOTOR 2. The Sith destroyed themselves after the death of Malak, and either Revan's defection or just leaving. The Sith lost Korriban, Traya even says that when the pub forces arrived the Sith had all killed themselves.

Traya never had an empire, she lead Malacore V and a few ships. You are using flawed information to make your assumptions, therefore your assumptions are false. I call a re-examination.
Have Force lightning will travel

smartalectwo's Avatar


smartalectwo
11.30.2012 , 09:17 PM | #348
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
The masters were not backstabbed, they were confronted, lectured, and even with their defenses up, aware of Traya's presence, she broke right through them.
What did she actually do, though?

From what I understand from the dialogue in the game, she 'shows them the galaxy through the eyes of the Exile' - and when you inspect their corpses in the game, it's as if they no longer exist in the Force.

From that, I always took it that she exposed them to the same level of pain and horror that caused the Exile to voluntarily sever herself from the Force to avoid the backlash - hit them with a wound in the Force. In essence, she hit them with Malachor V, right in the face. And because they couldn't sever themselves from the Force, because they were too dependent on it, they died.

But... would that work against Revan? Traya has such a love for him because he's the greatest student she's ever trained - better than Nihlus or Sion, because unlike them, Revan isn't dependent on the Force, presumably. That's the quality she seems to most respect and prize. And he's familiar with Malachor, so...

And, can she do it when the Exile isn't there? I assumed that because the Exile was there, and the Exile carries the horror of Malachor around with her, and because the Exile and Traya were linked, that Traya could do what she did then.
There is no try.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
11.30.2012 , 09:36 PM | #349
Quote: Originally Posted by Astorath_grim View Post
Traya wins she trianed revan so she knows all he is capable of also she trained Nilihus and sion and so forth so she knows what each is capable of and can probably do most things they can
Nihilus was a wound in the Force. Traya is not. She can't do what he can. Also, Traya/Kreia was only One of Revan's teachers. Revan had more than half a dozen Teachers among the Jedi and learned from all of them. And then he went to war and tempered his skills with experience in combat. Revan knew and understood war better than anyone else. Also, Revan expanded his knowledge during the war and this was evidenced in KotoR. He was already learning of the Rakata and the Star Force prior to the Emperor turning him. This was revealed during the vision on Dantooine.
CE Owner: ...what? I wanted the music. I like music.
Statement: SGRA's - I support them. Do you have a problem with that, Meatbag?

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.01.2012 , 01:45 AM | #350
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
you can also jam transmissions. You can also hide in the debris fields. The republic could very well be sending scouting parties through the debris fields to make sure nothing leaves, your blockade, board one and fly back... mm, quite fun. It could be interesting, the shuttle could feign as debris, or it could be investigated by those just far too curious, or Traya could be aboard and manipulate the crew's minds.

And if the ships are not close enough to the debris field, then they are not scanning and Beni's scenario plays out.
It is a lot harder to hide a capital starship in a debris field than a ship the size of the Ebon Hawk or the Millenium Falcon.

Also, if everyone would look at what all Revan accomplished in KotOR I, taking on Malek on the Star Forge, despite all of Malek's advantages he still ended up getting killed by Revan (whom still was missing a lot of his memory).

Kreia acknowledged Revan was probably way more powerful than she was.

Kreia may have been a master at deception and duplicity, however Revan was also a master at deception and duplicity, if you listen to HK-47's explanation as to the differences between Revan and Malek, it is fairly obvious that Kreia and Revan are probably evenly matched when it comes to deception.

Additionally her Sith Assassins weren't the only ones with Stealth Field Generators, heck in KotOR, if you are a scoundrel starting off, you get a stealth field generator. They aren't exactly rare, and the mandalorians were using stealth generators quite a bit, so Revan's troops probably knew how to deal with stealth enemies.