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Kaggath Series: Exar Kun vs Mandalore the Ultimate

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Exar Kun vs Mandalore the Ultimate

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.30.2012 , 03:13 PM | #41
Wait Kun doesn't get his own personal Sith apprentice in this battle? okay, don't see the sense in that but very well(I could understand Traya not having Nihilus or Sion due to their uber abilities but Ulic is not on that level).

Oh and I think the Krath cult is being severely underestimated here, they faced off the Jedi Order and handed them their backsides, a far superior Order compared to the Jedi that the Mandalorians faced in the Mandalorian Wars.

The Massassi engaged the Republic forces and briefly engaged the Mandalorians under Ulic's banner and were clearly holding their own in battle, so they are being underestimated to.

Then we have the most promising Knights and Padawans in the Jedi Order who turned to Kun's Sith Empire via the Dark Holocron, one of these was, none other than, Sion.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.30.2012 , 03:14 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I don't see a point (or yours for that matter ) If one combatant has a superior space advantage, they get the benefit of orbital bombardment. Orbital bombardment itself is not the problem, its imprentrable-ish fortresses, which orbital bombardment counters. So in this case, Exar Kun couldn't hunker down on Yavin 4 if driven back. Because Mandalore would blow his temple to pieces.

And yes nukes are banned, but orbital bombardment via laser cannons (see Taris) does not count as a superweapon.

The way I see it, minus Exar Kun = Mandalore victory. But Exar Kun is in the Kaggath (Ulic-Qel Droma isn't however, so him destroying Basilik war droids is an invalid point - not to mention the fact that he is considerably better than your standard dark jedi) so the tide turns.

Exar Kun could face and easily defeat Mandalore in person, but he has to get to him first. I don't know if Mandalore has a specific base so I guess it would be on his flagship. So he has to confront Mandalore's flagship, and board it - which requires some sort of space advantage...

The space advantage also hinges on ground advantage as that determines resources, territory etc.
So we have to consider, how to the combatants armies weigh up?

Krath <> Mandalorians?
Dark Jedi <> Mandalorians?
Massassi Warriors <> Mandalorians?
Sith War Beasts <> Basilik War Droids?
etc.

Thoughts?
*retracted*

because of the size of bassilisk war droids, they do not cary many destructive long-range weapons. They need ballistic artillary.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
11.30.2012 , 03:15 PM | #43
I may be biased - blast it, I'm a Mandalorian fool - but I gotta say Mandalore the Ultimate would kick Exar's shebs.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.30.2012 , 03:17 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by YoshiRaphElan View Post
I may be biased - blast it, I'm a Mandalorian fool - but I gotta say Mandalore the Ultimate would kick Exar's shebs.
A Mandalorian(Don't care if it's Boba Fett.) would 'kick Exar's shebs'? arguably the third most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith ever? one of the finest duellists ever? the guy who put Luke Skywalker in a coma, as a spirit no less? I can't see that logic.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.30.2012 , 04:07 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Wait Kun doesn't get his own personal Sith apprentice in this battle? okay, don't see the sense in that but very well(I could understand Traya not having Nihilus or Sion due to their uber abilities but Ulic is not on that level).
Rules are rules. Malgus didn't have Serevin. Grievous didn't have Ventress. Revan didn't have Meetra and Saul. Traya didn't have Sion and Nihilus. No other prominent powers. Seeing as Qel-Droma led the Krath forces and was Kun's powerful apprentice, he is outlawed. Just as Mandalore doesn't have Cassus Fett or Canderous. The rule has to be universal. I admit I let Guri and co. pass, but I realise now that was a mistake. I don't want the debate to get subverted by other powers.
Quote:
Oh and I think the Krath cult is being severely underestimated here, they faced off the Jedi Order and handed them their backsides, a far superior Order compared to the Jedi that the Mandalorians faced in the Mandalorian Wars.

The Massassi engaged the Republic forces and briefly engaged the Mandalorians under Ulic's banner and were clearly holding their own in battle, so they are being underestimated to.

Then we have the most promising Knights and Padawans in the Jedi Order who turned to Kun's Sith Empire via the Dark Holocron, one of these was, none other than, Sion.[/COLOR]
You make a good point here.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.30.2012 , 04:17 PM | #46
Rayla's points about the Krath and Massassi are very good points. I have a feeling that Exar Kun would win any sort of land engagement. Do the Mandalorians know that? No. The consider themselves the best. This leads to the following scenario:

Having successfully dominated the space battles in this war, Mandalore forces Exar Kun to retreat to Yavin 4. The relative ease at which they succeeded in space gives them a foolish pride that sends them into battle. Mandalore deploys his massive armies to engage Kun's forces.

Exar Kun personally leads his forces into battle, devastating the Mandalorian army. In a hasty retreat, the Mandalorians fail to see Kun take his personal shuttle and board Mandalore's flagship. Needless to say, Kun emerges victorious and forces Mandalore's service. Much like Ulic did to Mandalore the Indomitable.

This is a hypothetical scenario of course, but given the evidence we have for both sides, seems quite accurate. But, by all means, debate with me.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 04:26 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well as long as everyone else agrees... all I know is they were present in almost every battle. It took one Mando to pilot one. And in the Revan novel, Revan encounters a clan of say 10-12? With 2 Basilik droids, and that was when they were outlawed after the war, we assume they had more at the height of Mandalore's power.

So yes, at least 1 Basilisk per 4 Mandos

Remember though, Revan and Qel-Dromo (the latter is not in this fight) were powerful force users. So no surprises their. I expect a 2 Basilisk could defeat a single dark Jedi. Yes they killed their masters, but they caught them by surprise, and not all succeeded - so we have to take that with a pinch of salt.

You make good points however.


IMO yes. But thats in non-arbiter mode and subject to debate.
You make the good point that 1 or 2 Basilisks is all they need to take down a single Dark Jedi. This changes things.

With as many Basilisks MtU has, he's gonna have more of them then Kun's gonna have Dark Jedi. So I wanna throw this out there:
Dark Jedi _ Basilisk (note: there are a lot more Basilisks then Dark Jedi)
Krath/Massassi _ Mando (there are a lot more Mandos)
Exar Kun > MtU (easy)
Kun's fleet < MtU's fleet (due to Basilsks and sheer numbers)
Kun's leadership _ MtU's leadership (MtU is a freaking Mando, and Kun is ... well.. Kun)

Now I'm having a tuff time seeing Kun as the victor...

I'd also like to compare Revan's army to Kun's. This is to help us better understand Kun and his forces.
Kun's Dark Jedi > Revanchists (nuff said)
Krath/Massassi _ Standard Republic soldier (this is due to tech advantage with Revan's men - in a feirce melee I'd give it to the Krath/Massassi)
Kun's fleet < Revan's fleet
Kun's leadership < Revan's leadership (debatable)
Kun's power > Revan's power (if this was Revan reborn it'd be close)
Kun's general's < Revan's generals (Revan has Surik, Karath, Malak and others)
- I'm sure a few of you disagree about this, but hang with me for argument's sake

So how would MtU manage to beat Kun since he lost to Revan? I feel the biggest difference is this: Revan's fleet bigger/better then Kun's. Note that I'm not yet saying that Kun would win, I just feel that this fight is now a coin toss instead of a clear victory for Kun. Wow Beni, good job. I feel this will be a close Kaggath.

If Kun is gonna win this it will be SOLELY through his personel powers and perhaps the brutallity of his soldiers. I'm unsure of the winner at this point.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.30.2012 , 04:32 PM | #48
Um, MasterMe, the Krath beat the hell out of the much larger Republic fleet than the one seen forty years later several times over, so no Revan's fleet is not > Kun's fleet.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 04:41 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Um, MasterMe, the Krath beat the hell out of the much larger Republic fleet than the one seen forty years later several times over, so no Revan's fleet is not > Kun's fleet.
Well I don't know a whole lot about the Krath. After reading the past few posts I'll change my mind that thr Krath/Massassi are better then Republic soldiers and perhaps better then Mando soldiers.

But as for the fleets, are the Krath supplying the ships and the crewmen to Kun's fleet? That would make a big difference.

But yeah, I'll agree (as of now) that the Krath are better then standard Republic troops (and perhaps the Mandos), but I have a feeling they'd have a tuff time with Revan's fleet. Also, didn't someone say a while ago that we'd decided that the Mando fleet is better then Kun's? If so, then Revan's is likely better then Kun's. If not, then I'm being told some conflicting into on Kun and his ships.

Somebody inform me: just how powerful is Kun's fleet?

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.30.2012 , 04:43 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
the Mando fleet is better then Kun's.
I honestly don't know where anybody got that idea, but they are roughly the same size, IIRC.

And yes, Kun's fleet is primarily made up of Krath ships, but he also has refurbished Sith ships in his fleet as well as the ships that he stole from various raids.