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The strange behavior of the players in the flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
The strange behavior of the players in the flashpoints

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.26.2012 , 02:30 PM | #31
Not going to say the tanks are bad. If a tank keep the strong and elites off of the healer then, to me they have done their job. Not all the tanks have the same abilities. I also know I donít make it easy for many tanks in HMFP because I completely out gear them both on my healer and my shadow. I also use my strongest attacks at the start and then will use my dumb aggro after competing my first rotation or a few seconds later depending on my energy since the only aggro dumb a shadow has also is very big in energy management.

This is my first MMO, but I have been playing it over a year now, I was taught the weaks were DPS responsibility. Weak, Strong, Elite and last boss, and I live and die by that order on DPS. HMFP have a few mob areas that no matter who the tank is, the healer gets shot. There is one place on the False Emperor where I rocket boost/stealth ahead of the group so that I can CC one weak that DPS and the Tank always ignore. Now I either stealth CC or if they pull first, kill it before I heal. Not that big a deal, but it will shoot the healer in the back the entire fight unless I take care of it first. Same thing in the first room on CtS. There is a strong behind the bar that never gets taunted by the tank or hit by DPS, so if we have enough CCís I will CC him or stealth in behind him and use shoot first, dirty kick, sucker punch and pistol whip if needed before hitting anyone with a heal. However, I donít blame the tank if he is keeping the elites busy and I donít blame DPS if they are killing the weaks. Now if they are all on the elites and I am still getting shot by the weaks, I will not be happy. On guild runs this is par for the course. They pretty much expect me to deal with the weaks and strongs, but they are managing their own HP as they know how to use defensive cooldowns, know how to cleanse and know how to get out of AOEs. Plus they know I love using dirty kick and sucker punch.

Not sure of the other healers, but new operatives and sawbones Flash Bang, Flash Grenade is your best friend when everything is shooting you at once. Throw that and then use orbital strike/flyby.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
11.26.2012 , 05:10 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
Not going to say the tanks are bad. If a tank keep the strong and elites off of the healer then, to me they have done their job. Not all the tanks have the same abilities. I also know I donít make it easy for many tanks in HMFP because I completely out gear them both on my healer and my shadow. I also use my strongest attacks at the start and then will use my dumb aggro after competing my first rotation or a few seconds later depending on my energy since the only aggro dumb a shadow has also is very big in energy management.

This is my first MMO, but I have been playing it over a year now, I was taught the weaks were DPS responsibility. Weak, Strong, Elite and last boss, and I live and die by that order on DPS. HMFP have a few mob areas that no matter who the tank is, the healer gets shot. There is one place on the False Emperor where I rocket boost/stealth ahead of the group so that I can CC one weak that DPS and the Tank always ignore. Now I either stealth CC or if they pull first, kill it before I heal. Not that big a deal, but it will shoot the healer in the back the entire fight unless I take care of it first. Same thing in the first room on CtS. There is a strong behind the bar that never gets taunted by the tank or hit by DPS, so if we have enough CCís I will CC him or stealth in behind him and use shoot first, dirty kick, sucker punch and pistol whip if needed before hitting anyone with a heal. However, I donít blame the tank if he is keeping the elites busy and I donít blame DPS if they are killing the weaks. Now if they are all on the elites and I am still getting shot by the weaks, I will not be happy. On guild runs this is par for the course. They pretty much expect me to deal with the weaks and strongs, but they are managing their own HP as they know how to use defensive cooldowns, know how to cleanse and know how to get out of AOEs. Plus they know I love using dirty kick and sucker punch.

Not sure of the other healers, but new operatives and sawbones Flash Bang, Flash Grenade is your best friend when everything is shooting you at once. Throw that and then use orbital strike/flyby.
Well, the weaks are the dps' responsibility. But sometimes there's a lot of those, or they're spread out or the deeps play a class that's light on AoE, and, if the tank's using pull aggro, all remaining will aggro the healer if not immediately attacked by something else. Understand that, in most cases, all a tank needs to do to keep ahead of or overtake a healer on an aggro table against a mob is to hit each enemy with something once. Ditto with overtaking something that's attacking you.

However, in most flashpoints you're right that, to an extent, op and smugg heals are self sufficient and one unaggrod silver, let alone one aggrod weak isn't anything to worry about. You should have a skill called "cheap shot." Most people don't use these types of skills (stun/mez prereq), but the skill will pretty much one shot any weak and take half the health of most strongs. It's cooldown lines up pretty nicely with your stun as well.

Edit: by sucker punch did you mean cheap shot? Or is torhead wrong about skill names. I play an op, so I'm not sure about the mirrors. Skill I'm thinking of is called eviscerate for us, which maps to cheap shot. Sucker punch, I think, maps to lacerate, which is in the stealth tree.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
11.26.2012 , 05:15 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
Well, the weaks are the dps' responsibility. But sometimes there's a lot of those, or they're spread out or the deeps play a class that's light on AoE, and, if the tank's using pull aggro, all remaining will aggro the healer if not immediately attacked by something else. Understand that, in most cases, all a tank needs to do to keep ahead of or overtake a healer on an aggro table against a mob is to hit each enemy with something once. Ditto with overtaking something that's attacking you.

However, in most flashpoints you're right that, to an extent, op and smugg heals are self sufficient and one unaggrod silver, let alone one aggrod weak isn't anything to worry about. You should have a skill called "cheap shot." Most people don't use these types of skills (stun/mez prereq), but the skill will pretty much one shot any weak and take half the health of most strongs. It's cooldown lines up pretty nicely with your stun as well.

Edit: by sucker punch did you mean cheap shot? Or is torhead wrong about skill names. I play an op, so I'm not sure about the mirrors. Skill I'm thinking of is called eviscerate for us, which maps to cheap shot. Sucker punch, I think, maps to lacerate, which is in the stealth tree.
Good luck holding all the mobs' aggro with one hit as a Jedi Guardian. In the next few miliseconds you will see the guy you hit a second earlier switch back.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
11.26.2012 , 09:51 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Good luck holding all the mobs' aggro with one hit as a Jedi Guardian. In the next few miliseconds you will see the guy you hit a second earlier switch back.
Not if the guy who's being targeted is a healer.

ArbiterLibera's Avatar


ArbiterLibera
11.27.2012 , 02:34 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Andrey_Siberya View Post
In WoW, it is difficult to find a tank that it attacked the new pack of strong mobs with 50% health. In SVTOR is this a common thing. In WoW, a few more can be found of the tank, which will start the fight when healer out of mana, or the doctor is not there. In SVTOR it constantly. The fact that people have to help the tank, and beat his goal, I did not even mention.
What is this? I just had bad luck with groups? Or is it not a basic understanding of MMO game players? Or simply a cultural feature of english game worlds?
Please do not tell me to go back to WoW. I like it a lot SWTOR despite the large number of drawbacks. I just wanted to find out why.
Sorry for my bad English.
Kinda late to this one, but it's mainly because game teaches players to rely on companions so they don't get the chance to really learn their role early on. I've found this problem most prevalent in first two dungeons for both sides and Hammer Station, after that players kinda understand how to play.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
11.27.2012 , 02:41 AM | #36
This game makes it so easy for people to heal up since they have a button to do so, unlike WoW where a tank needs to consume something to get health up. As someone who healed in WoW for many years I ran into plenty of tanks who always demanded to be healed up and often ran to other mobs at low health, so no, it's not a swtor thing. I always thought that when I saw people do that in swtor they were those same WoW tanks that always expected a heal even when we were all sitting down eating our buff food and recuperating.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.27.2012 , 09:59 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
Well, the weaks are the dps' responsibility. But sometimes there's a lot of those, or they're spread out or the deeps play a class that's light on AoE, and, if the tank's using pull aggro, all remaining will aggro the healer if not immediately attacked by something else. Understand that, in most cases, all a tank needs to do to keep ahead of or overtake a healer on an aggro table against a mob is to hit each enemy with something once. Ditto with overtaking something that's attacking you..
Yeah, but I wasn't really talking about that. I was saying it was not the Tanks fault that stuff was attacking me (healer) when dps was busy attacking the same Elite the Tank is attacking. I have no problem with the healer being attacked on my sawbones I do not even care if everyone attacks the elite. She is so overgeared for HMFP that HMFP are a joke. However, on my Operative who was 4 days 50 yesterday doing a HMFP it is a different story. Two dps from my guild, two actual friends and they attack the elite instead of keeping stuff off of me. My Operative may look like a blue version of my green sawbones, but she doesn't have the gear, so she cannot take the punishment. I can't remember the last time I died in a HMFP, but we wiped yesterday and I died 3 times. My sawbones can heal through errors in judgement, my agent cannot....yet.

On my shadow I also keep stuff off the healer. I donít care how many there areÖWeaks are one hit. I also donít care how far apart they are, force speed. As far as AOE, donít have them, donít use them on my shadow.

SWGEvictee's Avatar


SWGEvictee
11.28.2012 , 10:58 AM | #38
When I'm the healer it's my job to keep you alive during combat so we all survive the fight. When I'm not healing it's my job to make sure I'm as prepared as possible for the next fight, including using my free heal out of combat. Now since I'm human I will forget to heal up once in awhile. Ok maybe more often than that but I never refuse a polite reminder to do so. If I do and insist on running into the next fight not fully healed the healer should let me die. The added repair bill will help me to learn better habits. When I'm the healer you'd better believe I will let you learn from your folly.

All classes have an OOC heal that only takes a few seconds to use. It is your responsibility to use it.

Emanrahc's Avatar


Emanrahc
11.29.2012 , 05:20 PM | #39
The worst FP PUG I was in was on my first Taral V run.

Our healer (scoundrel) was 10 or more levels higher than everyone else (not sure why he was even in the group), and kept rushing ahead on his speeder / in stealth mode to do all the bonus objectives and just left the rest of us to fight through the trash mobs on our own.

***

I just did an Athiss run today where the tank was a l19 JK with no shield. (Not even a case of just having their focus equipped instead - their offhand was empty, and when asked he said he didn't have one). Our gunslinger also seemed to think that his job was to pull the mobs...

Fortunately in this case the newbies were willing to listen to advice, so (after we wiped on the Beast of Vodal Kresh, mainly due to the tank and healer getting thrown off the cliff into a horde of gold elites) I switched to tanking and we did fine after that.

AjentWashington's Avatar


AjentWashington
11.30.2012 , 01:38 PM | #40
I have had a lot of groups like this. It is usually the knights and warriors that do this, because they can use focus from the last battle for the next one, and it gets on my nerves being the healer when I am a commando or Mercenary, and I usually get blamed when they die. I remember the day I was in a group with all knights and I was a commando. That was a bad day.