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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 07:23 AM | #311
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
1. This debate is kinda over
2. Revan's ships can orbit at a distance.
3. K-Canon (Beni) says that Kreia is now on Malachor with 0% of her ships, while Revan has 20% of his
4. IF she does have any shuttles, this is good for Revan. This means his ships get to pick them apart once they leave the planet. Traya would be a fool to leave. Just as Revan would be a fool to attack.

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MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 07:30 AM | #312
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
But poor Deadeye doesn't have a power base. And Han would shoot first. It wouldn't matter if Deadeye drew his blaster first, he always drops it!

I think a good battle would be Grand Moff Tarkin vs. Grand Moff Kilran. Who would emerge victorious in the ultimate test of Moffiness?
I like that idea. However, I think having 2 Moffs in 1 battle might be a little boring. I think we gotta mix it up a bit ya know?

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BlazingShadow
11.30.2012 , 08:54 AM | #313
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
1. This debate is kinda over
2. Revan's ships can orbit at a distance.
3. K-Canon (Beni) says that Kreia is now on Malachor with 0% of her ships, while Revan has 20% of his (which is EXTREMELY generous to Traya)
1. It was over long before Beni said so, I just wrapped up the loose end you so dearly take comfort in.
2. Orbit is one thing, blockade is entirely different. If Revan's fleet would be forced to go a fair distance from the planet's polluted debris field, then breaking that blockade (which there would be none, then) would be very likely.
3. Not likely, but that was very generous of Beni. To you. No fool would ever sacrifice their entire fleet at one space battle when they could be used for so much. But she doesn't need ships, just one small shuttle, which is bound to be used in their escape.
4. Go watch Episode 5, then watch the space fight in episode 2, then watch the leaving Taris scene from Kotor1, then play Empire at War, then watch the Malevolence episodes of the clone wars.

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MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 09:23 AM | #314
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
1. It was over long before Beni said so, I just wrapped up the loose end you so dearly take comfort in.
2. Orbit is one thing, blockade is entirely different. If Revan's fleet would be forced to go a fair distance from the planet's polluted debris field, then breaking that blockade (which there would be none, then) would be very likely.
3. Not likely. No fool would ever sacrifice their entire fleet at one space battle when they could be used for so much. But she doesn't need ships, just one small shuttle, which is bound to be used in their escape.
4. If you're not going to actually read the post, don't reply.
Geez. I really didn't want to get back into this. But your tone is so annoying I couldn't resist.

1. No point in arguing here. If "wrapping up" my supposed "loose ends" make you feel better, then have fun.
2. He has so many ships dude. He's gonna be constantly monitering the planet. With his loose blockade, you're right, Traya could get a few guys out in a single shuttle. What does that accomplish here though? All Revan has to do is track the shuttle's hyperspace coordinates, follow the shuttle, and the BOOM!
3. We've been over this. Beni said that Traya has 0% of her fleet bro and Revan has 20% of his. This is extremely generous to Traya wether you like it or not.

So, with K-Canon in mind, Traya is on Malachor V with possibly 1 shuttle, while Revan is blockading the planet with 20% of his massive fleet. While this is happening, Revan will go to other planets and either loot them or take them over. Hell, he could take over the entire galaxy while Traya sits on Malachor. And I love it that you brought up the fact that Traya can leave Malachor, because if she does, she dies. With that in mind, it's not only likely that Revan would tie this Kaggath, but likely that Revan could win it. Seriously, if Traya leaves, she dies for so many reasons. If she stays, it's a draw. Even then, if she stays, she gives Revan time to conquer other worlds. This is time to develop new tech and weapons. Traya does not win this fight unless Revan makes a foolish attack on Malachor.

Remember the logic you guys used to say that Revan would lose? You said "Revan dies because the Kaggath rules force him to attack Malachor." Well guess what? If that's what the Kaggath rules do, then they also means that Traya has to fly right into Revan's fleet with her single shuttle. Both of these plans are suicide! So now the rule (which I've argued should be dropped for this exception - stalemate) dooms Traya just as much as it dooms Revan. I love it that you just beat your own argument there. Nicely done!

I hope Beni is still reading!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.30.2012 , 10:22 AM | #315
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Geez. I really didn't want to get back into this. But your tone is so annoying I couldn't resist.

1. No point in arguing here. If "wrapping up" my supposed "loose ends" make you feel better, then have fun.
2. He has so many ships dude. He's gonna be constantly monitering the planet. With his loose blockade, you're right, Traya could get a few guys out in a single shuttle. What does that accomplish here though? All Revan has to do is track the shuttle's hyperspace coordinates, follow the shuttle, and the BOOM!
3. We've been over this. Beni said that Traya has 0% of her fleet bro and Revan has 20% of his. This is extremely generous to Traya wether you like it or not.

So, with K-Canon in mind, Traya is on Malachor V with possibly 1 shuttle, while Revan is blockading the planet with 20% of his massive fleet. While this is happening, Revan will go to other planets and either loot them or take them over. Hell, he could take over the entire galaxy while Traya sits on Malachor. And I love it that you brought up the fact that Traya can leave Malachor, because if she does, she dies. With that in mind, it's not only likely that Revan would tie this Kaggath, but likely that Revan could win it. Seriously, if Traya leaves, she dies for so many reasons. If she stays, it's a draw. Even then, if she stays, she gives Revan time to conquer other worlds. This is time to develop new tech and weapons. Traya does not win this fight unless Revan makes a foolish attack on Malachor.

Remember the logic you guys used to say that Revan would lose? You said "Revan dies because the Kaggath rules force him to attack Malachor." Well guess what? If that's what the Kaggath rules do, then they also means that Traya has to fly right into Revan's fleet with her single shuttle. Both of these plans are suicide! So now the rule (which I've argued should be dropped for this exception - stalemate) dooms Traya just as much as it dooms Revan. I love it that you just beat your own argument there. Nicely done!

I hope Beni is still reading!
Could I address a few things here. Blazing Shadow said that the shuttle would have assassins in it, so Traya wouldn't be leaving the planet. The assassins would stealthily board one of Revan's ships and take it over. Then move on to the next. He wasn't saying Traya was leaving the planet.

So with that in mind, it is quite possible for Traya to win using this tactic. The assassins could easily sneak through the blockade. No blockade is fool-proof.

Anyway, this debate has been over for a while now. Why don't we just leave it as it is and hope for the best?
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 10:32 AM | #316
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Could I address a few things here. Blazing Shadow said that the shuttle would have assassins in it, so Traya wouldn't be leaving the planet. The assassins would stealthily board one of Revan's ships and take it over. Then move on to the next. He wasn't saying Traya was leaving the planet.

So with that in mind, it is quite possible for Traya to win using this tactic. The assassins could easily sneak through the blockade. No blockade is fool-proof.

Anyway, this debate has been over for a while now. Why don't we just leave it as it is and hope for the best?
You're right. The debate is over. But allow me to make a point regarding those assassins:
If they couldn't beat Revan's army when they were at full force, I see no way that they could beat Revan's forces now that there are very few of them + Revan's watching them and he knows where they're coming from.

Sorry I did that. I know the debate is over, I just could shy away from making that last point. If you want to reply to this and chew it over for a bit, I don't mind.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.30.2012 , 10:33 AM | #317
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Geez. I really didn't want to get back into this. But your tone is so annoying I couldn't resist.

1. No point in arguing here. If "wrapping up" my supposed "loose ends" make you feel better, then have fun.
2. He has so many ships dude. He's gonna be constantly monitering the planet. With his loose blockade, you're right, Traya could get a few guys out in a single shuttle. What does that accomplish here though? All Revan has to do is track the shuttle's hyperspace coordinates, follow the shuttle, and the BOOM!
3. We've been over this. Beni said that Traya has 0% of her fleet bro and Revan has 20% of his. This is extremely generous to Traya wether you like it or not.

So, with K-Canon in mind, Traya is on Malachor V with possibly 1 shuttle, while Revan is blockading the planet with 20% of his massive fleet. While this is happening, Revan will go to other planets and either loot them or take them over. Hell, he could take over the entire galaxy while Traya sits on Malachor. And I love it that you brought up the fact that Traya can leave Malachor, because if she does, she dies. With that in mind, it's not only likely that Revan would tie this Kaggath, but likely that Revan could win it. Seriously, if Traya leaves, she dies for so many reasons. If she stays, it's a draw. Even then, if she stays, she gives Revan time to conquer other worlds. This is time to develop new tech and weapons. Traya does not win this fight unless Revan makes a foolish attack on Malachor.

Remember the logic you guys used to say that Revan would lose? You said "Revan dies because the Kaggath rules force him to attack Malachor." Well guess what? If that's what the Kaggath rules do, then they also means that Traya has to fly right into Revan's fleet with her single shuttle. Both of these plans are suicide! So now the rule (which I've argued should be dropped for this exception - stalemate) dooms Traya just as much as it dooms Revan. I love it that you just beat your own argument there. Nicely done!

I hope Beni is still reading!
1. Happily.
2. Shuttles can lose their hyperspace trails quite nicely, also debris fields are very, very good for hiding and making escapes, but you seem to be unable to comprehend major canon occurences in Star Wars that make this so.
3. Beni shoe-horned the fight into Malachor 5 because you, among others, flopped around like fish out of water. I've only tried to explain why Traya's forces are superior as well as define the two main characters. And I'm not the one who wanted the fight at Malachor 5.

You assume too much. Why does she die, how does she die. She's able to blind herself to those around her, particularly those strong in the Force. And she's survived being shot down in a shuttle quite a few times.

Point out to me specifically where -I- said the rules of the kaggath dictate they must fight. And fighting an entire fleet with 1 shuttle is quite possible if you read my post. But given the post above me, you don't really get the MO of Force-devouring assassins....

*edit* hmmhmmhmm wouldn't want to hurt your feelings.

Oh, and one more thing for you to choke on:
I love the blind faith some people have in Revan, especially when he has been defeated several times in several ways. It's been said in this thread that Kreia spoke very highly of Revan, that he was stronger in the force than her, and that is true. But if we're taking her at her word, she also stated: "There are techniques within the force for which there are no defense". And then shortly proceeded to slay three of the greatest jedi masters with the teachings of Malachor 5. And that was with their guard up, lightsabers drawn, on Dantooine. I hate to say it... actually, I love to say it... but JK Revan meeting Darth Traya, Darth Traya in command of the ST, not Kreia, is assured defeat. That is a result of her construction as a character in the Star Wars universe.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 10:40 AM | #318
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
1. Happily.
2. Shuttles can lose their hyperspace trails quite nicely, also debris fields are very, very good for hiding and making escapes, but you seem to be unable to comprehend major canon occurences in Star Wars that make this so.
3. Beni shoe-horned the fight into Malachor 5 because you, among others, flopped around like fish out of water. I've only tried to explain why Traya's forces are superior as well as define the two main characters. And I'm not the one who wanted the fight at Malachor 5.

You assume too much. Why does she die, how does she die. She's able to blind herself to those around her, particularly those strong in the Force. And she's survived being shot down in a shuttle quite a few times.

Point out to me specifically where -I- said the rules of the kaggath dictate they must fight. And fighting an entire fleet with 1 shuttle is quite possible if you read my post.


Oh, and one more thing for you to choke on:
I love the blind faith some people have in Revan. It's been said in this thread that Kreia spoke very highly of Revan, that he was stronger in the force than her, and that is true. But if we're taking her at her word, she also stated: "There are techniques within the force for which there are no defense". And then shortly proceeded to slay three of the greatest jedi masters with the teachings of Malachor 5. And that was with their guard up, lightsabers drawn, on Dantooine. I hate to say it... actually, I love to say it... but JK Revan meeting Darth Traya, Darth Traya in command of the ST, not Kreia, is assured defeat. That is a result of her construction as a character in the Star Wars universe.
I'm not gonna bother debating you any more seeing as how you've dropped this debate to a level of insults. I'm not playing that game.

No. You specifically never talked about the Kaggath rule thing, but others arguing for Traya did.

Yes, I did flop around like a fish didn't I? I got a little frustrated when it seemed that Revan had to confront Traya on Malachor, but that doesn't change the fact that my arguments have been very logical and, for the most part, insult-free.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.30.2012 , 10:43 AM | #319
Blaze: look at your argument.

You are now saying that Traya can win with 1 single shuttle and a handful of assassins vs Revan and thousands of his ships. Think about it.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.30.2012 , 10:43 AM | #320
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I'm not gonna bother debating you any more seeing as how you've dropped this debate to a level of insults. I'm not playing that game.

No. You specifically never talked about the Kaggath rule thing, but others arguing for Traya did.

Yes, I did flop around like a fish didn't I? I got a little frustrated when it seemed that Revan had to confront Traya on Malachor, but that doesn't change the fact that my arguments have been very logical and, for the most part, insult-free.
Your arguments have been the most entertaining examples of Revan-reverence I have ever seen. And I'm not insulting you, just making very colorful and accurate descriptions of what you are and what you do.

Now you will pay the price for your lack of vision: :sy_inquisitor: