Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Tanking


MouseNoFour's Avatar


MouseNoFour
11.29.2012 , 04:47 PM | #1
Vanguards/Powertechs, Guardians/Juggernauts and Assassins/Shadows. They can all tank. But at roughly what level does gearing and talent choices really start to matter when tanking heroics and flashpoints?

If say, a Vangaurd is geared and talented towards dealing damage instead of survival (choosing more Aim instead of more endurance, going down the Tactics or Assault Specialist talent trees), at roughly what level would healers have trouble keeping them alive for heroics and flashpoints?

althene's Avatar


althene
11.29.2012 , 05:16 PM | #2
Generally speaking, so long as you're in a tanking stance, you're capable of tanking. This is true of all the tanking classes. The trick is how WELL you're tanking. The short answer is, if you're not in a tanking spec, with tanking talents and tanking gear, you're gonna have a bad day.

The long answer is much more than the sum of it's parts, but suffice it to say that there's somewhat of a break even point. By that I mean, without tanking gear, you can rely on talents and do alright. With tanking gear, you can start shifting talents around to become more dps oriented. Several hybrid specs rely on this and do well in almost every situation (vanguard hybrids being extremely popular for this). All that said, you're going to need gear and talents for heroic modes and operations no matter what. Neither situation can afford to have a squishy tank (or any other class that can't pull it's own weight, for that matter). Early flashpoints are relatively forgiving and there's not much in the way of tanking gear until roughly 25 to 30 unless you're crafting it specifically or scouring the GTN for other player crafted items.

cisme's Avatar


cisme
11.29.2012 , 05:18 PM | #3
If you're gonna pvp it doesn't matter as long as you survive/ kill stuff. One the other hand I have wiped on hammer station due to bad tanks

althene's Avatar


althene
11.29.2012 , 05:35 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by cisme View Post
If you're gonna pvp it doesn't matter as long as you survive/ kill stuff. One the other hand I have wiped on hammer station due to bad tanks
That might have more to do with players either selecting the tank role for the faster queue hoping someone will pick up the slack, or just being ignorant of the fact the game auto selects all available roles. Both are equally frustrating.

As for PvP, tank specs with dps gear destroy sh*t. They're so frustrating to fight because they're so hard to bring down without a team effort or superior gear (sometimes greatly superior). Gods help you if the tank has a pocket healer as well.

althene's Avatar


althene
11.29.2012 , 05:44 PM | #5
Generally speaking, so long as you're in a tanking stance, you're capable of tanking. This is true of all the tanking classes. The trick is how WELL you're tanking. The short answer is, if you're not in a tanking spec, with tanking talents and tanking gear, you're gonna have a bad day.

The long answer is much more than the sum of it's parts, but suffice it to say that there's somewhat of a break even point. By that I mean, without tanking gear, you can rely on talents and do alright. With tanking gear, you can start shifting talents around to become more dps oriented. Several hybrid specs rely on this and do well in almost every situation (vanguard hybrids being extremely popular for this). All that said, you're going to need gear and talents for heroic modes and operations no matter what. Neither situation can afford to have a squishy tank (or any other class that can't pull it's own weight, for that matter). Early flashpoints are relatively forgiving and there's not much in the way of tanking gear until roughly 25 to 30 unless you're crafting it specifically or scouring the GTN for other player crafted items.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
11.29.2012 , 07:39 PM | #6
While leveling, the tank trees only really aid resource management. There are a couple of survivability improvements but largely you could tank in any spec as long as you can generate enough aggro. That said, some specs will have an easier time of it like Vig Guardians. PT Pyro will have a shocking time trying to tank because most of his talents are tied to CGC. A DPS Shadow in tank stance is also going to be a lot squishier and have some serious issues if they're in Infiltration.

Basically, as you go higher up in levels specialization becomes more important. Content is tuned based on you having a real tank and healer. Over leveling or over gearing content can largely bypass these but if you want to be running content at level/gear you should be fully specced. If you're happy to outgear or over level content, make sure the 'tank' has a Shield equipped and you should be fine.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

DwainD's Avatar


DwainD
12.07.2012 , 06:02 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MouseNoFour View Post
Vanguards/Powertechs, Guardians/Juggernauts and Assassins/Shadows. They can all tank. But at roughly what level does gearing and talent choices really start to matter when tanking heroics and flashpoints?

If say, a Vangaurd is geared and talented towards dealing damage instead of survival (choosing more Aim instead of more endurance, going down the Tactics or Assault Specialist talent trees), at roughly what level would healers have trouble keeping them alive for heroics and flashpoints?
Up until around level 20 you can tank any flashpoint in DPS gear and DPS talent spec if you’re in the tanking stance.

At level 30, you can stay in DPS gear, but you’re going to have to go at least hybrid into a tanking tree, and keep the tank stance on.

After level 40, if you’re a good tank player, you can still keep the DPS gear on as long as you start using your shield generator and have around 10+ points in either the Tank tree, or 15+ in the Combo tree.

At level 48 you’re going to see a big change in flashpoints and your armor is going to have to change also. You’re going to have to start working in more mitigation gear and lose the DPS gear.

All this is predicated on you knowing how to tank; not being a DPS player ‘trying’ to tank. If you’re new to tanking, then be a tank. Let your DPS kill stuff while you keep them safe. If you’re an old tank and just leveling a new version, then you know the ins and outs of the role and won’t see a huge problem if you want to boost your DPS to speed up your leveling.

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
12.07.2012 , 04:22 PM | #8
Flashpoints and Heroics don't really require a tank at all.

Before about level 30, tanks aren't really tanks (lack of talents) and past that point, DPS get sturdier and healers get stronger healing abilities.

At 50, with geared players, there's no need for tanks whatsoever for any 4-man-and-under content. Well, it does come in handy to have one DPS able to flag as a tank in GF if you're trying to clear daily HM FP for BH comms, but that's as far as that goes.

Even relatively "squishy" DPS in full DPS gear, DPS spec, DPS stance, etc. do not take sufficient damage to make it impossible (or even tremendously difficult) to heal through any 4 man content currently implemented, up through and including HM LI.

And, as a matter of fact, it's so much faster to clear 4 man content by foregoing a tank entirely that the only reasons to take one are if PUGing, if everyone is going on ungeared fresh 50 alts, or if a tank needs a clear and doesn't have the gear/experience to play their AC as a DPS.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.07.2012 , 04:29 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
Even relatively "squishy" DPS in full DPS gear, DPS spec, DPS stance, etc. do not take sufficient damage to make it impossible (or even tremendously difficult) to heal through any 4 man content currently implemented, up through and including HM LI.

And, as a matter of fact, it's so much faster to clear 4 man content by foregoing a tank entirely that the only reasons to take one are if PUGing, if everyone is going on ungeared fresh 50 alts, or if a tank needs a clear and doesn't have the gear/experience to play their AC as a DPS.
This is true if you overgear the content. If you are running at an appropriate gear level, a tank is a necessity even if only to control where the incoming damage goes.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
12.07.2012 , 04:35 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
This is true if you overgear the content. If you are running at an appropriate gear level, a tank is a necessity even if only to control where the incoming damage goes.
And it takes almost no effort to overgear any 4 man content barring HM LI, and little enough effort to overgear HM LI.

One can be wearing full Columi (or better) gear in less than a week of hitting 50 without legacy transferring anything simply by doing at least 1 GF run a day, and that already puts you into "overgeared" status for all world Heroic 4s and all T1 HM FPs.

I would think trying to 3DPS something like HM LI with wacky specs like DPS Ops/Smuggs, 3x DPS Sorc/Sage, etc. would make it miserable, but anything easier is basically a non-issue.