Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Stormcaller target switch bug?


Fallerup's Avatar


Fallerup
11.29.2012 , 02:39 AM | #1
Ok, so here is the deal. Last night, my ops group went in to do EC weekly. I was tanking stormcaller and all went smoothly. Then on the second or 3rd shield phase, I was runing around placing the stuff on the ground and suddenly, stormcaller switches targets from me to a dps and the whole team wipes cause he places the electric thing inside the shield where everyone is. I've never seen that happen before and after 2-3 tries with this happening, we finally got a "normal attempt" on the bosses and we killed them.
Gagota Class: Arsenal Mercenary
Member Of
Dark Brotherhood
Server: Tomb Of Freedon nadd EU

Stratovaried's Avatar


Stratovaried
11.29.2012 , 05:53 AM | #2
We had a similar thing happen to us on denova nim, i was on the ground before shield phase dodging the lightning things. And when we entered the shield phase, the tank who was kiting dropped two to ground, and had a couple of seconds of lag. So the stormcaller targeted me instead, and we got the third one under the shield, wiping the firebrand side.
Only time that happened though, so think it was only due to lag.

jeniyagyu's Avatar


jeniyagyu
11.29.2012 , 09:16 AM | #3
I've had this happen numerous times while tanking and while dpsing. I noticed that Stormcaller will swtich to a DPS not matter what unless someone does their aggro dumb or the tank taunts. (I heard something about something that Stormcaller dumps aggro during DD, but I could have heard wrong).

I even stood on the tank until it blew me off and it STILL swtich to a dps, everytime I had to get aggro back. :/ idk what it is, but this happened to my dps getting aggro way before the 1.5 patch.

Maybe see if you should put in a ticket?
55 Shadow - 55 Sage - 55 Gunslinger
55 Assassin - 55 Sorcerer - 55 Operative - 55 Juggernaut
~Just wants to raid and have fun. Seriously, Guild Politics make me want to /wrists.~

SturmUndSterne's Avatar


SturmUndSterne
11.29.2012 , 09:45 AM | #4
Part of it is that your MDPS on Stormcaller uses DoTs. When Stormcaller hits Defensive systems, it's an immediate aggro wipe and it must be re-taunted. If there's still a Cauterize ticking on Stormcaller, it'll pick up the DPS immediately.

If you don't maintain aggro on Stormcaller by doing more than just a single taunt, two ticks of Cauterize will put the DPS aggro over yours.

Solutions:

Don't just kite the pillars, shoot Stormcaller once or twice. Furthermore, you may need to re-taunt.

Make sure your DPS know to not leave DoTs on Stormcaller from about X3% onwards. Storm engages Defensive systems at 80, 60, 40, and 20. Don't leave dots that will tick past those amounts, so don't put a dot on it after 83, 63, etc.

We've had flawless runs in both story and hard modes once we started managing our strategy on Stormcaller appropriately.

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
11.29.2012 , 11:48 AM | #5
There isnt an agro dump, it is just the dps building more threat then the tank. I am sure you're not doing a tank swap (very rarely will there be agro problems after the first swap), so just make sure the tank on stormcaller taunts while leaving the tank... it isnt a big issue, but for some reason tanks dont like to use their taunts much...
-La'Mis Legacy- Proud Member of Hatred and PUGS

Biskibis-Operative -- Kemenotic-Marauder -- Chaqen-Darksin -- Wallabe-Sniper -- Belsapher-Mercenary

SturmUndSterne's Avatar


SturmUndSterne
11.29.2012 , 01:30 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
There isnt an agro dump, it is just the dps building more threat then the tank. I am sure you're not doing a tank swap (very rarely will there be agro problems after the first swap), so just make sure the tank on stormcaller taunts while leaving the tank... it isnt a big issue, but for some reason tanks dont like to use their taunts much...
I'm pretty sure there's an aggro dump in there somewhere, even if it's partial. We have had huge issues with our DPS ripping aggro on Stormcaller just after DD and right before/after Defensive systems - even with taunts being used. The strategy as I described above has solved most of these issues for us.

Anecdote:

Once, on my sent, I didn't DPS on Stormcaller from 90% on, and hit stealth during that time, to see if I could have as low a threat level as possible before the first defensive systems phase. (This was obviously in a story mode) .. I dropped one Cauterize on the boss just before the shield dropped, and I ripped aggro off the kiting tank. This tank had used a taunt just seconds before and should've been at the top of the aggro chart. When the taunt wore off it immediately went to me even though I hadn't dropped a single attack onto the tank for 9% of the fight's health. I should NOT have been able to instantly climb to the top of the aggro table with one tick of damage, but there you go.

Difficulty: I was also guarded, and had been half-donkeying my DPS before then, not running max rotation.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
11.29.2012 , 01:48 PM | #7
I don't think there is an aggro drop here at all. I ran this last night and much like every other time while im kiting the lighting spires around the dps in the shield on SC side killed the adds in about 4 gcd's and strarted dpsing SC from the shield. I did not lose aggro. I did not taunt. I do however think that SC does have a lower aggro table than most other bosses in game tho. It seems like many people have issues with this tank.

SturmUndSterne's Avatar


SturmUndSterne
11.29.2012 , 03:11 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
I don't think there is an aggro drop here at all. I ran this last night and much like every other time while im kiting the lighting spires around the dps in the shield on SC side killed the adds in about 4 gcd's and strarted dpsing SC from the shield. I did not lose aggro. I did not taunt. I do however think that SC does have a lower aggro table than most other bosses in game tho. It seems like many people have issues with this tank.
The thing is, we've been told by experience and the developers that the threat table in boss encounters is a linear progression - 1000 threat is 1000 threat, 10k is 10k. Healing is, IIRC, 0.75% of DPS threat per point (or thereabouts, which is way too high) and tanking is 200% of dps when in tank stance and not using multiplier attacks.

If the tank is popping taunts (which put the tank at 100% of the highest current threat on the target) and continuing to hit attacks, they should never lose threat. Provided, of course, that the tank's DPS is at least 50% of the top DPS before multiplier attacks. I don't know many tanks that aren't at least 1000 DPS for their rotation, and a top DPS is not 2000DPS.

If there's no DPS or no healing occurring on the fight, and the tank loses aggro in spite of taunts or aggro multipliers, there's gotta be a dump somewhere even if the mechanic is hidden. The fact is that Stormcaller frequently drops tank aggro to a DPS. We just don't know if it's intended (hidden mechanic-driven) or a bug.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
11.29.2012 , 03:15 PM | #9
On Hard and Story mode, I can assure you there is no aggro wipe. I've yet to get into NiM but I doubt they would add one there, it would severely disadvantage Shadows and Guardians compared to a Vanguard.

Stormcaller will look towards (and target) the DPS while the tank is kiting) pillars but he should keep dropping them on the tank. If you are using a tank swap, after the 2nd or 3rd tank swap the Firebrand tank will have secondary aggro so will be targeted should the Stormcaller tank lose (or drop) aggro. If the tank that lost aggro part way through was a Guardian, make sure they weren't using Focused Defence, the threat drop from that could cause the situation you described.

Alternatively, one of the DPS had a DoT still ticking on the boss and it was sufficient to push their aggro high enough to pull. In that case: a taunt when the tank is knocked back will solve that problem.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
11.29.2012 , 03:23 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SturmUndSterne View Post
The thing is, we've been told by experience and the developers that the threat table in boss encounters is a linear progression - 1000 threat is 1000 threat, 10k is 10k. Healing is, IIRC, 0.75% of DPS threat per point (or thereabouts, which is way too high) and tanking is 200% of dps when in tank stance and not using multiplier attacks.

If the tank is popping taunts (which put the tank at 100% of the highest current threat on the target) and continuing to hit attacks, they should never lose threat. Provided, of course, that the tank's DPS is at least 50% of the top DPS before multiplier attacks. I don't know many tanks that aren't at least 1000 DPS for their rotation, and a top DPS is not 2000DPS.

If there's no DPS or no healing occurring on the fight, and the tank loses aggro in spite of taunts or aggro multipliers, there's gotta be a dump somewhere even if the mechanic is hidden. The fact is that Stormcaller frequently drops tank aggro to a DPS. We just don't know if it's intended (hidden mechanic-driven) or a bug.
Also the easiest way to check if a fight has a threat drop is to look at a parse for the fight. If there is a threat drop, your tanks threat per second will be negative at the end of the fight. This is because every time they build up threat and it is wiped. The taunt will put that at 130% of the next highest threat, which will be lower than the volume they just lost. Alternatively, if the threat per second is over 3k you can be assured there isn't a threat drop at all.

My personal best TPS on Stormcaller is about 14k by the end of HM on a Guardian tank. This is with me using my single target taunt on Firebrand so I eat Incinerate Armour. Comparatively, on Vorgath (who does have a threat drop), I usually end up at around -9k TPS. I run with MoniTOR on my second screen so I can get a real time view of what is happening with threat.

Also, if you tank is a Shadow make sure they aren't using Noxxic's advice and using their combat stealth as a CD.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]