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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.29.2012 , 12:43 PM | #261
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Which means Traya wins. It was inevitable. Per Kaggath rules, Revan must engage her. And if he does he will die. Or Traya makes him her apprentice. Which still means she wins as she has taken from his power base.
Yup. I just lost a debate that was impossible to win. Malachor prevents Revan from receiving ANY of the advantages of blockading a planet. Someone explain to me how this fight was remotely fair?

Sorry if I'm kinda pissed right now guys. I just don't feel that this Kaggath played out fairly.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.29.2012 , 12:45 PM | #262
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK, I think this debate has explored every possible variable. And I've made a decision (as impossible as that was)...... which will be revealed in the next thread!

Seriously though, great debate. I'm pleased to say that this has been by most popular thread ever, and despite being about Revan did not erupt into a flame war. It probably holds the record for the most give up-come back moments as well. (Yes, your all guilty) I hope you continue to be as comprehensive and articulated as you have been here. You may be pleased to know the next debate will be less... fiery.

and on that note, Lord Kaan vs?
Yes. Despite the outcome, it has been very fun. Lot's of good thinkers here.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.29.2012 , 12:46 PM | #263
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK, I think this debate has explored every possible variable. And I've made a decision (as impossible as that was)...... which will be revealed in the next thread!

Seriously though, great debate. I'm pleased to say that this has been by most popular thread ever, and despite being about Revan did not erupt into a flame war. It probably holds the record for the most give up-come back moments as well. (Yes, your all guilty) I hope you continue to be as comprehensive and articulated as you have been here. You may be pleased to know the next debate will be less... fiery.

and on that note, Lord Kaan vs?
Glad to see this didn't become another flame thread too!

MasterMe and I were discussing a winners and losers bracket so that we could give the winners and losers another chance. Sort of like a tournament. Then the winners of the two brackets could face off to decide the ultimate victor! Good idea?

And I can't wait to see who Lord Kaan is going up against. Naga Sadow's army?
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.29.2012 , 12:47 PM | #264
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Lord Kaan vs?
Seriously this has got to be Darth Krayyt, it would be an immense battle of two pretty mighty Empires.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.29.2012 , 12:52 PM | #265
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
And I can't wait to see who Lord Kaan is going up against. Naga Sadow's army?
That's the point, you tell me

I've recently begun reading the Bane Trilogy - awesome by the way - and became intrigued by the Brotherhood of Darkness.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Seriously this has got to be Darth Krayyt, it would be an immense battle of two pretty mighty Empires.
Darth Krayyt? I did consider this but my complete lack of knowledge for post-ROTJ made be hesitant. But if you believe it would be a good match I'll do some research. Thanks for the suggestion

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.29.2012 , 12:58 PM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
That's the point, you tell me

I've recently begun reading the Bane Trilogy - awesome by the way - and became intrigued by the Brotherhood of Darkness.

Darth Krayyt? I did consider this but my complete lack of knowledge for post-ROTJ made be hesitant. But if you believe it would be a good match I'll do some research. Thanks for the suggestion
Naga Sadow and Darth Krayt are good choices. I'm kinda leaning towards Malak's Sith Empire. Or maybe the Galactic Empire? Though you would have to exclude Thrawn and Palpatine. How about Empress Teta? So many factions to choose from.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Airmo's Avatar


Airmo
11.29.2012 , 01:39 PM | #267
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Yup. I just lost a debate that was impossible to win. Malachor prevents Revan from receiving ANY of the advantages of blockading a planet. Someone explain to me how this fight was remotely fair?

Sorry if I'm kinda pissed right now guys. I just don't feel that this Kaggath played out fairly.
Agreed, Malachor was a superweapon at the end, one Kreia had no control over so I don't see how she's a genius just sitting there while the storm beasts and gasses and darkside energy thin out Revan's forces for her. =/
"Darkness is a friend, an ally. Darkness allows us to understand others, to see what they value when they believe no one else is looking. It allows us to be honest with ourselves, to express those values that we would disavow in the light. The light blinds us. It is only in the dark that we see clearly."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.29.2012 , 01:41 PM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by Airmo View Post
Agreed, Malachor was a superweapon at the end, one Kreia had no control over so I don't see how she's a genius just sitting there while the storm beasts and gasses and darkside energy thin out Revan's forces for her. =/
I can assure you I've taken everything into account. And whether Malachor was a death trap or not would not have altered the outcome.

Airmo's Avatar


Airmo
11.29.2012 , 01:47 PM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I can assure you I've taken everything into account. And whether Malachor was a death trap or not would not have altered the outcome.
And if the battle wasn't at Malachor how would she win? If Malachor wasn't a death trap? It decided the battle before it began.
"Darkness is a friend, an ally. Darkness allows us to understand others, to see what they value when they believe no one else is looking. It allows us to be honest with ourselves, to express those values that we would disavow in the light. The light blinds us. It is only in the dark that we see clearly."

NasalJack's Avatar


NasalJack
11.29.2012 , 01:52 PM | #270
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This talk of bombardment is foolish at best. If we are under the impression that Revan knows Traya is at Malachor, then Traya knows he is coming.

As soon as Revan's fleet comes out of hyperspace, they begin the bombardment. They aim wildly in an attempt to hit the Academy. Suddenly, the Triumvirate fleet comes out of hyperspace behind Revan's fleet. Caught off-guard, Revan's fleet takes heavy losses as they turn to engage the enemy fleet. But by the time they turn around, the enemy has vanished. But not before Assassins sneak onboard a couple of Revan's ships.

The bombardment resumes, but suddenly, multiple Haamerhead frigates fire upon their allies. The Assassins have taken control of multiple frigates and are firing on the Republic ships. But then the Triumvirate fleet returns. The Assassin ships and the Triumvirate fleet quickly defeat the Republic fleet.

Revan doesn't get a chance to bombard the Academy.
1. Revan's fleet outnumbers the Sith fleet. Like, by a lot. So why are you assuming that a) Revan would for some reason be unprepared to be attacked by ships and b) take heavier losses in his massive fleet than the Sith would with their much smaller fleet? It makes no sense.

2) "Assassins sneak onboard a couple of Revan's ships". How? In the scenario you gave, they can't just "sneak" on as they would need ships to do so, and ships are not as invisible as the assassins. So a lot of assassins die trying to get their ships onto Republic ships, and even then, Revan knows SOMETHING is up since nothing seems to come out of the boarding party ships.

3) "the assassins have taken control of multiple frigates". Again, how? The takeover of the ship we saw in KOTOR 2 took a while, and tons of people on these ships are going to have plenty of time to report that some **** is going down before the Assassins have control of the ship. Which gives Revan options of sending his own men into the ships to clear out these assassins, or simply shoot his own ships down if he thinks it'd be better use of his resources.

For some reason people seem to think these Assassins are some sort of trump card that wins the battle for Kreia, but their strength lies in the shadows, and choosing their battles. If Revan is forcing a direct engagement in which the assassins need to board Revan's ships while in space, while Revan is anticipating boarding parties...then there goes surprise, their MAIN advantage.

If taking over multiple Republic ships was so easy to do, these assassins would have DONE that already in KOTOR 2, taking over Republic ships that wouldn't be expecting it, and not full of battle ready troops. But given that they didn't, we can pretty much assume it's not as easy as some people are making it out to be. The only ship we DO see them take is alone, not full of soldiers, not exactly battle prepared, brought a derelict ship onboard (which is what let the assassins into the ship in the first place), and they had Darth Sion with them as well. So essentially the absolute ideal situation for them.

And what indication do we have that these assassins know how to operate massive Republic ships? They certainly didn't capture the one from KOTOR 2 and add it to the Sith fleet, did they?