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Rage Smash Showdown!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Rage Smash Showdown!

filipesantana's Avatar


filipesantana
11.28.2012 , 10:49 AM | #1
First of all, I play a jugg, vengence by choice..smash because rateds demand it..

Let me just say i consider Smash an extremely boring "no skill required" spec.A good player will xcell...a bad one, well, will still do ok because there isnt too much into the spec.Its a 3/4 button one trick pony spec and whoever tries to argue that there is skill in it is just delusional(not that any class/spec in swtor requires THAT much skill to perform ok..).

"you need to have good positioning"- Really?! for an aoe damage ability?!How hard can it be to stand close and...well..click a button?How hard is it to save it until u have the max number of players in range?..srsly..ITS NOT THAT HARD and requires half of a brain cell to achieve it.,

"you need skill to damage/perform when smash is on cd"--hmm, arguable, but still its 8-9 secs, you only have to choose btw scream..ravage..VS..cmon..

These are the ones i see the most when someone is defending smash spec skill requirements...truth be told, it requires close to no skill, you can charge sunder..stacksx4...smash..and the only thing you actually need to pay attention is to actually be close enough to ur targets...or save smash to hit more targets and maximize damage..

In the end the spec revolves around a single ability that makes huge damage, managing stacks and being sure you dont overlap them and screw your rage generation ISNT that big of a deal..im sorry but whoever thinks that requires tremendous amounts off skill is wrong..

Give the best pvp egar..aaugmented..to a clikcing backpadeling clueless jug..and i assure you he will still egt 7k crits...and achieve at least the 300k damage medal, and even though none represent a skill level, they do represent an average/good performace in a wz..


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Now,another thing is the smash vs vengence specs.

The whole myth about vengence not having a spot in Rateds is just laughable.I ahve played enough rated pvp and achieved enough to have a valid opinion,and, in my opinion Vengence can eprform as good and in some cases even betetr then rage.

Voidstar would be the only map i would say a rage spec would be preferable due to the constant clutch...other than that, vengence offers good damage..betetr defense..good surv..way better mobility and all that results in a WAY BETTER control of the fight compared to rage.

Give gear to a skilled vengence player and he will outperform most juggs.Damage wise they wont be that far apart unless the other team is bad and keeps handing in free group smashes.But the vengence player will eb able to be mroe active..annoy more healers..peel better and overall contribute more to the fight.

A geared vengence will be much harder to control as a healer(specialy a sorc).
why?
Because rage is way too easy to control..snare..shutdown.Any healer with a clue wont have a problem with a rage spec jugg by himself..but a vengence spec will defenitly annoy him enough, might no kill him, but wil dfenitly do good.

the Real skill imo is in people Avoiding Smash and learn to control it..because playing it, well doesnt require much.Its REALLY easy to predict a smash..and jsut get out of range..


Now, is the damage op?
Honestly given the spec poor defenses i dotn think so.Its way to easy to control a smash jugg..to jsut not let him do anything.Therefore i dont think the damage is over the top, the thing is people still dotn know how to counter a rage jugg effectively, but that AINT that hard.

But , if anythign was to change to make the damage be more...well, balanced. i would do one of these 2:

1-nerd smash base damage by 30%, buff scream base damage by 30% (find a workaround so Carnage wouldn't be getting 7k crits form scream then)---Result=Rage would have its damage mroe spread around different abilities and nto be such a one trick pony. And vengence would get a sligth damage boost that would definitely make it competitive enough to be chosen for rateds instead of rage.


2-Make smash a melee ability..not aoe, single target, melee range.Done


At the moment rage only gets to be the choice because people don't know how to counter it, and having its spread damage is jsut too good to pass on.


but every time i play it i feel like im losing brain cells...its so...simple...empty and not rewarding.

it reminds me of 2 hand Windfury shamans in Vanila wow....or Pom arcane mages.

When a spec doesnt give you tools to outperform someone...to actualy make skilled moves/coices..when all you ahve to do is set up that oen ability..use it..wait for cd..rinse and repeat...well, my friends, im sorry but that means the spec AINT hard to play and requires close to no skill .All it has is extremely high damage, that upon hapening will foprce cds giving you a straight on advantage.

my 2 cents

(i jsut want people to believe in vengence for rateds!else..BW FIX THIS PLOX KKTHXBYE)

(sorry for my english, jsut trying to express an opinion, upon getting more gear im going to give vengence another chance to outshine rage and maybe record it)

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
11.28.2012 , 11:52 AM | #2
That's one of the best posts i have read about lolsmash so far, i generally agree, just some small points to consider

Imo the damage is a bit op, if only because you can remod with power for crit, i don't think that was intended. I'd fix it by instead of a guaranteed crit, make it +60% crit percentage, similar to recklessnes on inquisitors so it's at least a little trade off to stack all power.

If you make it single target i feel like as the one ability of the spec, it's not "special" enough, i'd need something more like some health or force regen or a knockback or whatever.

Also, i agree that people are not very good at avoiding smash, but it's kinda hard as a melee that wants to kill a healer... That said maybe this is exactly what they intended, an incentive to bring a balanced team into the wz.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
11.28.2012 , 11:58 AM | #3
Second option is better than simply nerfing the base damage of the ability. But you'd have to compensate for a lack of AoE somehow - every class gets a useable AoE, Knights/Warriors shouldn't be the exception (though I know that Combat and Watchman spec barely ever uses Sweep anyway). And if you mention Cyclone Slash I'll drown you in a bucket of yoghurt.

JohraTon's Avatar


JohraTon
11.28.2012 , 12:13 PM | #4
Gotta agree with above and say the damage is only over the top because of the auto crit.

Combining high crit damage, face rolling difficulty, automatic crit and AoE together is a little mad for 1 ability.

The vengeance play style is way more interesting to be honest. But in a poor group the advantages of the big AoE is a nice one to have. Now we have free respec's i generally jump back to vengeance when my mates log in for the evening.
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DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
11.28.2012 , 12:51 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
Let me just say i consider Smash an extremely boring "no skill required" spec.A good player will xcell...a bad one, well, will still do ok because there isnt too much into the spec.Its a 3/4 button one trick pony spec and whoever tries to argue that there is skill in it is just delusional(not that any class/spec in swtor requires THAT much skill to perform ok..).
Agreed. The 3/4 button DPS rotation for Rage is mind-numbing. I gave it a whirl on my Mara for a couple weeks and just had to scrap it due to boredom.

At the same time, the DPS Rotation for Rage is no less facile than the rotations for a lot of top DPS specs like PT/Van (the easiest by far) and even Sniper/Slinger. But, of course, you already acknowledged this.

Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
or save smash to hit more targets and maximize damage
Why save it? The uptime on Smash is super easy to maintain. Just blow the load non-stop. It's not necessarily spammable, but it's pretty darn close. My Mara rarely saved his Smashes when he was lolsmashing. It just wasn't necessary.

Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
the Real skill imo is in people Avoiding Smash and learn to control it..because playing it, well doesnt require much.Its REALLY easy to predict a smash..and jsut get out of range..
With one Smasher this is not a huge issue really. But with multiple Smashers, this can be near impossible. Team play is essential in this regard, and if your teammates aren't on the same page, you will just have to eat the Smashes and die. This is the case, btw, in most NWZs, as you know.

Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
Therefore i dont think the damage is over the top...Make smash a melee ability..not aoe, single target, melee range.Done
This is where we disagree. I think the max potential damage is over the top. To me the problem is with the Auto-Crit. No way should an AOE of the caliber of Smash be an auto-crit. That's the problem. There is no other skill like that in the game.

Now the damage goes through the roof not because of the skill itself, but because the auto-crit actually creates a build imbalance favoring one stat - Power. Lolsmashers can easily forego their Crit Rating to accommodate stacking Power for Smash. Sure, every other spec in the game can stack power too, but other specs make significant sacrifices to do so. With Lolsmashers, there is no substantial sacrifice to a diminished Crit Rating because Smashing is all they really do.

So I disagree with making Smash a single target ability. I think that type of change is far too harsh. That AOE potential is one of the few abilities the SW/JK class has for disrupting multiple cappers or interrupting groups, not to mention it plays a useful roll in PvE incapacitating weaker mobs during multiple target pulls.

Instead, make Crit Rating matter to players that spec Rage. Forcing players to compensate for Crit would put them back in line with all the other specs in the game. I'm guessing that you would see a 20-25% reduction in spec damage overnight due to the existing unbalanced builds.
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BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.28.2012 , 01:08 PM | #6
Amazing how maras know there's a nerf on the way so they cry crocodile tears agreeing that the best course of action would be to lose auto crit.

Maras have way too much survivability and that is the problem. They should either be the uber nukes that they are now but without the survivability or their damage potential should be cut in half. 500k dmg in wz for a melee class is an absolute joke.
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Aetideus
11.28.2012 , 02:15 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by BoDiE View Post
Amazing how maras know there's a nerf on the way so they cry crocodile tears agreeing that the best course of action would be to lose auto crit.

Maras have way too much survivability and that is the problem. They should either be the uber nukes that they are now but without the survivability or their damage potential should be cut in half. 500k dmg in wz for a melee class is an absolute joke.
As I read somewhere, Marauders were always powerful but became noticeable after sorc/sage nerfed.

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MiaRB
11.28.2012 , 02:30 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetideus View Post
As I read somewhere, Marauders were always powerful but became noticeable after sorc/sage nerfed.
sents/mars were pretty weak overall at launch. they did need a boost( mainly for PVE ), but BW went way overboard with everything they ended up giving sents/mars patch after patch. smash is silly and they gave them way to much in terms if defensive stuff. they need to take way ALL the ranged attacks and leap and really make it a true melee class, or they need to bring their def abilities back down to earth. as well as change smash so its a low damage AOE for tanks specs but a high damage single target attack for the DPS specs. crazy that the biggest damage attack in the game is an AOE.

really has zip to do with sages/sorcs.
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PowerReaper
11.28.2012 , 02:35 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaRB View Post
sents/mars were pretty weak overall at launch. they did need a boost( mainly for PVE ), but BW went way overboard with everything they ended up giving sents/mars patch after patch. smash is silly and they gave them way to much in terms if defensive stuff. they need to take way ALL the ranged attacks and leap and really make it a true melee class, or they need to bring their def abilities back down to earth. as well as change smash so its a low damage AOE for tanks specs but a high damage single target attack for the DPS specs. crazy that the biggest damage attack in the game is an AOE.

really has zip to do with sages/sorcs.
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RaptorClown
11.28.2012 , 02:37 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by PowerReaper View Post
A Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior not having a Force Leap/Charge? just....LOL!
yea that guy has no clue. taking leap from melee classes is dooming them. zzz