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8man vs 16man NiM EC Discussion


Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
11.20.2012 , 03:30 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkhorseForLife View Post
Our guild has done both 8m and 16m NiM EC (we have 4 distinct raid groups, 3 of which are 8m teams... roughly 50 active progression raiders give or take).
50 progression raiders?! In this game? Whoah, thumbs up, we can barely force 8 people to get online when NEW content comes, WTB server transfers asap.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
11.20.2012 , 07:20 PM | #62
To BW/EA:

Either increase the 8 man difficulty - 10 guilds cleared it in under 3 days,
or decrease the 16 man difficulty - 2 clears of Tanks and no clears of Kephess.

Personally, I'd suggest increasing the 8 man difficulty, I'm 1/4 NiM EC and thought that NiM Zorn & Toth were a letdown

Is NiM EC Kephess a step up from the Drouk Brothers? Someone in Astral described him as being very well tuned on 8 man. I'm curious if anyone with 4/4 agrees.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
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Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
11.20.2012 , 08:59 PM | #63
Kephess NiM 8 man is finely tuned, in my opinion. In order to kill those two-warrior packs efficiently and destroy the walker in three attempts you need to push your dps to the utmost limit, nothing short of BiS gear from TFB HM is required. The last phase is finally no joke when it comes to staying alive and staying focused, the problem I personally had in HM is that I was almost always double ressing the tanks (one battle ress and then stealth ress), meaning there was a lot of room for error, now this is not the case - tank being pulled while having breath of the masters debuff plus cleave = oneshot, then Kephess starts some crazy nightmare AoE killing everyone in the raid.

It's still underwhelming for the final boss of this so-called nightmare mode (they could've added a lot more mechanics and made things a lot more interesting ... for example, the two droids with railshot are EXACTLY the same, unless I'm missing something), but at least it's a step up. No more screwing around with killing the warriors, slacking on dps when walker is down and, especially, with the tanks coordinating and taunting off each other perfectly in the very final phase.

nDjiin's Avatar


nDjiin
11.26.2012 , 01:31 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkhorseForLife View Post
The problem isn't the difficulty. That's not why people are complaining. I'm really happy that there is finally something that is literally on the edge of too hard for some really quality raid groups to complete.

That being said, people are kind of pissed (including me) because 8m is comparatively too easy for the same rewards. 8m NiM EC is much easier than 16m. There is no debate to be had. It's not even close . It's REALLY disheartening to see 8m groups reaping the same rewards and makes you question why it's worth doing something just for "prestige".

There are already discussions internally within the guild of breaking down our 16m into two 8m raid groups for farming once we have beat this content for progression, and it's a shame that that's even being considered. Just a personal opinion (I don't speak for all in MoX), but Bioware is going to have to do much more balancing or provide perks for 16m raiding if they want any guilds to keep doing it. It's apparent already that there aren't many of us left.
Why is 8man easier?
Kovacs - Powertech Warped - Marauder
Hypnotik - Operative Simulcra - Sniper
Margorach - Sorcerer

nDjiin's Avatar


nDjiin
11.26.2012 , 02:18 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
To BW/EA:

Either increase the 8 man difficulty - 10 guilds cleared it in under 3 days,
or decrease the 16 man difficulty - 2 clears of Tanks and no clears of Kephess.

Personally, I'd suggest increasing the 8 man difficulty, I'm 1/4 NiM EC and thought that NiM Zorn & Toth were a letdown

Is NiM EC Kephess a step up from the Drouk Brothers? Someone in Astral described him as being very well tuned on 8 man. I'm curious if anyone with 4/4 agrees.
The 1 and 3rd boss fights are a very straight forward, with the tanks being a tough enrage timer with failry simple differences in the mechaincs (with almost none if u time the DPS right). Kephis however is another matter - is a very very tough fight with a lot of working out to do - with the 2nd and final phases being particlaury hard.

I would persoanlly like to see Zorn and Toth and the minefiles difficlty ramped up a lot, while the other 2 fights I think are about right in terms of difficulty.
Kovacs - Powertech Warped - Marauder
Hypnotik - Operative Simulcra - Sniper
Margorach - Sorcerer

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
11.26.2012 , 03:05 AM | #66
Minefield was amazingly unimpressive in 8m, we wiped on Vorgath at 30% the first time due to underestimating turret damage and did it the second time.

Frankly it and drouks are little more than sticking to the same routine as hm.

Quote: Originally Posted by nDjiin View Post
Why is 8man easier?
Because you don't have to find 16 players who know their stuff every time you want to raid.

snowmon's Avatar


snowmon
11.26.2012 , 03:25 AM | #67
no offence to some of you saying you have noticed this recently, however its always been like this, 16man content since release is really not worth the hassle, its not tuned properly at all and neva has been. and this is from someone that had everything cleared except NiM EV in January. (NiM EV was not doable till the mind traps were patched)

we were going to go 16 man but after testing it out it was just not reasonable to ask the guys to do it. so we did 2x 8man instead.

bragging rights are the only reason to do 16man, and as we dont give a crap what people think we will stick to 8man untill they grow a brain and sort 16man out.
lvl 55 PT DPS, ToFN Server

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
11.26.2012 , 06:54 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by snowmon View Post
no offence to some of you saying you have noticed this recently, however its always been like this, 16man content since release is really not worth the hassle, its not tuned properly at all and neva has been. and this is from someone that had everything cleared except NiM EV in January. (NiM EV was not doable till the mind traps were patched)

we were going to go 16 man but after testing it out it was just not reasonable to ask the guys to do it. so we did 2x 8man instead.

bragging rights are the only reason to do 16man, and as we dont give a crap what people think we will stick to 8man untill they grow a brain and sort 16man out.
Yeah, but if you've been doing 16 man Ops progression recently you'd have noticed that the gap which previously I'd say was 15%, has now increased to about 40%

NiM EV and KP were easy mode compared to HM 16 Man TfB and NiM EC is a step beyond even that. The difference you noticed before is WAY larger than when you stopped doing 16 mans.
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Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
11.26.2012 , 11:43 AM | #69
Overall I feel that Nightmare EC is a letdown in 8m and even in 16m to an extent. The only fight that seems almost appropriate to be labeled nightmare is kephess.
Toth and Zorn - a little more health and dmg with a baradium poisoning debuff that ticks for 3.5k dmg but can be removed by using a medpac. Really bioware you thought that would make the fight challenging? It's a loot pinata way too easy and not worthy of being called nightmare mode.
Tanks - okay so DD/incinerates happen more often and now 1 mob gets a jetpack explosion when he dies to destroy the shield. Still an easy fight and the whole add exploding is easily countered by having a tank pull the mob out or by having a sniper knock it out and away from shields. Really not a nightmare at least in 8m 16m is apparently a bit rougher but still not worthy of nightmare mode.
Colonel "here is your free loot" Vorgath - An absolute joke in nightmare mode. Even easier than HM since he no longer even casts overloads. The orbital strike dmg on the defuser is a joke and the increased dmg in final phase is pretty much a joke. Thanks for the free loot drops bioware. Definitely not worthy of nightmare mode title.
Kephess- rail shot droids the same...so meh...I love that you make us use an interupt rotation in first phase on droids. I like what you did with adding an extra warrior on the trando adds shield phase makes dps have to pay attention and be spot on. the dmg that kephess does is pretty good, but the pulling in the tank with breath on it actually makes the fight slightly easier. It's actually a decent fight, but could be better to offer a real challenge in 8m though it sounds like 16m is providing adequate challenge as still no guilds have cleared it.

For being promised that we would see completely new and different mechanics and a difficulty level that only the best of the guilds would be able to clear I feel extremely ripped off. It feels pretty much like NMM EV and KP...10% more hps and dmg. I really hope bioware steps it up with NMM TFB or that they just stop even bothering with these attempts at nightmare.

tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
11.26.2012 , 01:03 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
Really not a nightmare at least in 8m 16m is apparently a bit rougher but still not worthy of nightmare mode.
Seriously, try NiM tanks and tell me how close you get. You'll learn things about pushing your guild to the limit that you never thought you'd need to do as far as specifics. As far as how bioware is doing, I think the most we can ask for is steps in the right direction. The fact that we'll, as a community, most likely make it to the 3rd week of progression with bosses still alive is a credit to them. I think the biggest question now is less about how difficult NiM EC is and more about when NiM TFB and/or operation #5 is coming out. That will dictate how many people/guilds keep going (as far as ops at least).
DrGordon - Chosen - Prophecy of the Five