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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
11.25.2012 , 06:45 PM | #1191
Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
An answer on the subject will commit if is to have any substance. As a game developer you really don't want to promise something you might have to renege on later. Better to let people QQ.
I would rather as a paying customer have BW to tell me no, never, and if you dont like it take your business elswhere over dead silence.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
11.25.2012 , 06:58 PM | #1192
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSabreth View Post
I would rather as a paying customer have BW to tell me no, never, and if you dont like it take your business elswhere over dead silence.
But what if their intention is to do something about it, but they just dont know; how, when, how much it will cost, how long it will take to develop or whether it is at all feasible?

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
11.25.2012 , 07:02 PM | #1193
Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
But what if their intention is to do something about it, but they just dont know; how, when, how much it will cost, how long it will take to develop or whether it is at all feasible?
You make a very valid point, Im just fustrated about the current mess with premades. This has been an ongoing discusion for quite some time now.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.25.2012 , 07:19 PM | #1194
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
This game already has matchmaking. Answer the following:

Are you a dev of this game?
Do you know the current matchmaking code?
Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking isn't working?

The answers to these are probably no. The truth is, matchmaking is more of the same.

What are we getting with the more of the same? Well you can log in and see for yourself AKA dead ranked queue's due to lack of competitive nature from premades, hence why they rather pug stomp.

When you say you want better matchmaking, you just want things the way they are. Which isn't working, kinda the reason why people are leaving PVP. You want more competition? Then lure more people into PVP, it's simple.

Bad suggestion is bad.
Are you a dev of this game?
Do you know the current matchmaking code?
Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking is working?

Since the answer is probably no, the truth is that -real- matchmaking would fix the problem. I do not know what system is in place now, but from my experience it grabs the first 16 people in the queue and puts them together. This is how double premades manage to get on the same team vs 8 pugs. If the system matched by some criteria (gear, valor, win/loss ratio, HGA, Medal Ratio, etc...) and had enough population (Cross server queue's) queue times would be low, and balance would be high.

And I'm sick of people claiming players like me, who organize, learn the game, and coordinate don't want competition. It is solo people who don't want competition, or they would man (or woman) the **** up and take the simple steps to make themselves competitive.

filipesantana's Avatar


filipesantana
11.25.2012 , 07:51 PM | #1195
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Are you a dev of this game?
Do you know the current matchmaking code?
Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking is working?

Since the answer is probably no, the truth is that -real- matchmaking would fix the problem. I do not know what system is in place now, but from my experience it grabs the first 16 people in the queue and puts them together. This is how double premades manage to get on the same team vs 8 pugs. If the system matched by some criteria (gear, valor, win/loss ratio, HGA, Medal Ratio, etc...) and had enough population (Cross server queue's) queue times would be low, and balance would be high.

And I'm sick of people claiming players like me, who organize, learn the game, and coordinate don't want competition. It is solo people who don't want competition, or they would man (or woman) the **** up and take the simple steps to make themselves competitive.
+100 internets


^ THIS EXACTLY


jsut like i said, people that dont want to play in teams wont ever..EVER improve!its a fact and it has been like this in every mmo since competitive(real) pvp showed up.

Go Solo...keep being bad...keep not improving...keep being clueless about yoru class..the other classes..the game..gear..specs...etcetc...

go in a team, and get ALL THAT + more...you WILL become a betetr player and the comunity will improve, become betetr and mroe competitive,

Sadly Swtor has one of the worst pvp comnuities outthere...people dont care about being competitive..improving, or actualy being good at the game....they care more about roleplaying(in pvp lol), ..getting cool gearszzzz.....or simply doing a daily just because...well..because tis a daily(this "daily" people have no voice or valid opinion in pvp matter imo..just go through your 4 losses quick and your done..)

This is why you see in the swtor pvp stuff that is completely up side down compared to all the other competitive pvp mos outthere..people defending solo queues...solo rated queues....backpadeling..keyboard turning..clicking...twinking...ganking...and athe lsit goes on...its sad but its true, this pvp comunity lacks real pvp'rs..


(sorry for my english)

iSoldat's Avatar


iSoldat
11.25.2012 , 07:53 PM | #1196
There is no matchmaking in PVP in SWTOR and people who believe there is are fooling themselves. Even limited matchmaking wouldn't put 5 sages, 1 Commando healer, 1 vanguard and a gunslinger in a match and I have a screen shot to show you that it happens. All the sages had to do was overlap their circles and no amount of focused dps could dent them.

Image

The PVE game has matchmaking but you see how that works. If you are a dps, you'll wait sometimes hours while a tank or healer queues. Even the GF queue is screwey and allow dual rolls that could easily create a tank or dps heavy group. If they did that to PVP, could you imagine the QQ that would happen when the queues aren't popping.

sunsu's Avatar


sunsu
11.25.2012 , 09:22 PM | #1197
Only problem Ive ever had with MMO PvP is grouping. There is a problem with queue times when you start separating, unless you are able to pull from multiple servers. Elite geared players imo have no business mixing it up with standard geared players. Not only does it ruin the experience for new players but it sends a message that the game only cares about hard core players.

I queue solo, im an introvert, but I like being around the MMO population. Im intelligent enough to know the tactics of the WZ and help my team, im not the best player on the field, im willing to learn my class to the fullest extent as time limits. I have my moments of epic greatness that keep me coming back for more and Im pretty sure there are alot of people out there like me.

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
11.25.2012 , 09:23 PM | #1198
Quote: Originally Posted by iSoldat View Post
Ding Ding Ding, you almost got it, but I didn't say that I didn't PVP during the 10-49 bracket, I eluded that SOME people choose to do the PVE experience. All I did with my last 2 toons was class quests, FP's and PVP, but I still didn't outlevel the planets to enjoy the challenges at the level they offered. Learning to play your class in PVP in the 10-49 doesn't prepare you for the Valor/Gear/Expertise gap when players in the 10-49 bracket don't have the full use of their respective abilities.
Some experience with your toon and abilities in a PvP setting is better than none. At the very least, you learn what the point of each WZ is.

Quote: Originally Posted by iSoldat View Post
Remember the expense of getting the last group of abilities at 50? Don't you realize that some people enjoy learning their rotations through trial and error and not through the cookie-cutter sites? Are you advocating that everyone should have the max coms and be (at minimum) valor 40 when they hit the 50 bracket? Not everyone is a die-hard PVPr, especially on a RP or PVE server. What gives the die-hards the right to dictate how someone else plays their toon?
While it is not necessary for a player to have maxed valor and comms before entering the 50PvP bracket it is highly recommended.

It also does not take a die hard PvPer to reach that. Once again, if you do the lowbie daily each day, you will be close to that. Well, before they increased the cap you would be.

Lastly, no one is telling you how to play your toon. You can play it however you see fit. But, you must understand that there are consequences of playing your toon in that manner and in doing so, any claim you make about PvP being unbalanced will be looked at with skepticism.

So if you decide to PvP in PvE gear, not saying that you do, and get blown apart by a Commando, is it the commando's fault?

mulzii's Avatar


mulzii
11.25.2012 , 09:26 PM | #1199
Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
+100 internets


^ THIS EXACTLY


jsut like i said, people that dont want to play in teams wont ever..EVER improve!its a fact and it has been like this in every mmo since competitive(real) pvp showed up.

Go Solo...keep being bad...keep not improving...keep being clueless about yoru class..the other classes..the game..gear..specs...etcetc...

go in a team, and get ALL THAT + more...you WILL become a betetr player and the comunity will improve, become betetr and mroe competitive,

Sadly Swtor has one of the worst pvp comnuities outthere...people dont care about being competitive..improving, or actualy being good at the game....they care more about roleplaying(in pvp lol), ..getting cool gearszzzz.....or simply doing a daily just because...well..because tis a daily(this "daily" people have no voice or valid opinion in pvp matter imo..just go through your 4 losses quick and your done..)

This is why you see in the swtor pvp stuff that is completely up side down compared to all the other competitive pvp mos outthere..people defending solo queues...solo rated queues....backpadeling..keyboard turning..clicking...twinking...ganking...and athe lsit goes on...its sad but its true, this pvp comunity lacks real pvp'rs..


(sorry for my english)
Interesting perspective. I respectifully disagree though. I believe, that on average, a solo player is a BETTER player than a dedicated group player.

A group/premade only player tends to get 'lazy'. The rely on other classes/people to do well. They become reliant on the group and cannot function outside of the group. they need the coordinated ccs that a premade provides. Or the synergy of a predefined group. Thats why you see some of the 'elite' folks completely kick butt in premades, then they play a pug and they not play so well without a pocket healer, or vent communication, or stacked group of smashers or multiple cross healers. Then they log onto the forums and bemoan that premades should be the only option for pvp, cause they cannot compete on the same level in pugs that that can in premades.

IMHO, people who pug on a constant basis have to learn how to adapt on the fly to many different types of players, strategies, group makeup, etc. Anyone can excel in a dedicated premade. Its easy to pre-stack classes/healers/etc. The real skill is excelling in a group without healers, or without balanced classes. It takes skill to work as a group without vent, etc...

sunsu's Avatar


sunsu
11.25.2012 , 09:32 PM | #1200
Quote: Originally Posted by mulzii View Post
Interesting perspective. I respectifully disagree though. I believe, that on average, a solo player is a BETTER player than a dedicated group player.

A group/premade only player tends to get 'lazy'. The rely on other classes/people to do well. They become reliant on the group and cannot function outside of the group. they need the coordinated ccs that a premade provides. Or the synergy of a predefined group. Thats why you see some of the 'elite' folks completely kick butt in premades, then they play a pug and they not play so well without a pocket healer, or vent communication, or stacked group of smashers or multiple cross healers. Then they log onto the forums and bemoan that premades should be the only option for pvp, cause they cannot compete on the same level in pugs that that can in premades.

IMHO, people who pug on a constant basis have to learn how to adapt on the fly to many different types of players, strategies, group makeup, etc. Anyone can excel in a dedicated premade. Its easy to pre-stack classes/healers/etc. The real skill is excelling in a group without healers, or without balanced classes. It takes skill to work as a group without vent, etc...
Ya I agree here, group play does not make a better player. Hence why my warlock in wow used to decimate groups in open world to the point where i had bands of people trying to kill me.