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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.24.2012 , 06:27 PM | #3281
I believe Eldartank (the husband has many of these and is enjoying the new rules for flying tanks and such!) was attempting to say that all romance should be under the same toggle: on or off. Meaning that straight [Flirts] would be unavailable as well as gay [Flirts] - at least, that's what I assume he meant.

Of course, if people are given the option to turn off everything they find problematic with the storyline, it becomes very boring and very plain very quickly. No moral dilemmas (should I risk this guy getting killed to save one family, or should I doom the first family and save the second?), no shudder inducing moments that remind us we live in a horrible world, no quirky characters (I imagine some people would find their quirks "problematic").

And if people are SO CONCERNED with protecting their children from the "big, scary gays", they should remember this: kids don't care.

As with the link I posted above, kids don't care if you're marrying a woman or a man, just so long as they get cake.

stormdrakelord's Avatar


stormdrakelord
11.24.2012 , 08:36 PM | #3282
I know I have bright this up before, but I think this has more to do with how it is being developed, that they are not talking.

They need to find a way to make SGRA's unique, and not just pronoun swapped. this is actually harder than it sounds, so they may need to have more time working on it.
Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get cocky.

tolaf's Avatar


tolaf
11.24.2012 , 11:21 PM | #3283
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post

And if people are SO CONCERNED with protecting their children from the "big, scary gays", they should remember this: kids don't care.

As with the link I posted above, kids don't care if you're marrying a woman or a man, just so long as they get cake.
Ah, yes very true, but you and i know both know that most people don't believe that.
And you can't convince people of such an idea so easily, it takes years to introduce a new idea into society.
BioWare is doing what all smart companies do, ignoring the problem.
It's obvious BioWare does not believe the risk is worth the reward, so it's much easier to say nothing and retain subscribers hoping they will implent this.
Of course you can only ignore people for so long before you have to bait them again, something BioWare doesn't seem to comprehend.
There is really nothing more to be said, the only thing we can do now is restate what has been said and hope for the best.
Dark Nova leader of the Sin-gie clan

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
11.25.2012 , 02:13 AM | #3284
I just logged into my Jedi Knight thinking I'd play her for a little while before dinner... Then I spotted Kira standing on the bridge of the ship, with her "talk to me" sign over her head. I sighed and then logged out.

I have a few characters in the same situation at the moment. I wish they'd hurry up and tell us how SGRA are going to work for older characters.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
11.25.2012 , 03:27 AM | #3285
I just find it ignorant to assume the only logical explanation for why we don't have this content and/or an explanation/confirmation is that BioWare is somehow terrible, one way or another. Either BioWare is stupid or BioWare is anti-gay, or someone in the corporate structure has laid down a gag order.... It can't possibly just be the realities of game development and the over all policies of the community team.

We're talking about, once again, some of what could potentially be the largest expansion to the game's content to date. We're talking about this in a game that has drastically failed to meet expectations. We're thus talking about a game that spent it's first few months scrambling to address player concerns about core content, the next few months trying to solve server issues, and recent months converting to an entirely new business model.

I honestly think these types of attitudes are a byproduct of the ever so lovely Age of Entitlement we live in. It's the same thought process that leads to people demanding that DLC be free, or that it should have already been in the game. It's the world where when gamers are disappointed in a game's ending, they rally together to try and force the developer to change it. It's the idea that having to pay a minor fee for convenience features in a F2P game is outlandish, and a multimillion dollar game should be completely and conveniently playable without dropping a single dime.

And you wonder why BioWare can't talk to us? You. You're the reason. The people in this thread talking about suing BioWare for false advertisement. The people lodging discrimination complaints against CMs. The people who want to march on a headquarters or boycott a brand every time a game developer says they'd like to do something and it doesn't pan out.

You created the atmosphere of silence where they're afraid to talk about anything not set in stone, and now you blame them for it.

It's okay to be disappointed about this. I sure am. And don't dare judge my enthusiasm for this content by the measuring stick of my outrage at BioWare, or lack thereof. I'm very passionate about my desire for this content, and it is very important to my full enjoyment of this game.

But there is a proper way to deal with disappointment. This is not an us vs them issue. You don't have to go looking for a villain every time you feel disappointment. Sometimes one isn't there. Sometimes, that's just part of reality. I'm sorry you grew up being told you can be anything you want, and that you're special, and the world is made out of flowers and candy canes, but disappointment is a part of life.

It's 100% acceptable to be disappointed and express that. It's a good thing to keep the pressure on and let BioWare know how much we want this. But when you start leveling very serious accusations like discrimination, and discussing threatening livelihoods with civil action, you are a part of the problem.

If half of you honestly believe the accusations you've been leveling at the parties involved here, you have no business supporting them. If you truly believe these companies are taking discriminatory action, you shouldn't be subscribed, you shouldn't be buying their products, and you shouldn't be patronizing their forums. Not that I encourage you to be that kind of unreasonable, but seriously, crap or get off the pot.

I'm not sorry if this offends you. I'm not trying to offend you, I'm trying to beat the ignorance monkey off your back; but if you take a few lumps in the process, so be it.

And once again, remember, what I'm saying here is only directed at the people leveling unfair and baseless accusations or otherwise turning this into some sort of social warfare. Don't be offended just because you're upset this content isn't available yet and you somehow think I'm saying you shouldn't be, that isn't the case.

If BioWare releases a content expansion that subscribers have to pay for, and this issue still hasn't been addressed, it may well be time then to more aggressively pursue answers. Until then, either make your passion and desire for this content clear in a patient and reasonable manner, or just leave if you don't have the patience for that anymore. We don't need people making our group out even more as some sort of hostile entity for BioWare to handle with care.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
11.25.2012 , 04:23 AM | #3286
I found this on another site, and I thought it worked here nicely. Kudos to the writer!

*=small edits

I commend the CM's for trying to answer questions, but the reality is, you for the most part, do not have the answers to give the public when they ask for them or at least that's what it looks like from this side.

The result is, when changes are made, or upcoming features are announced, the public gives feedback, whether it is good or bad, and then asks the CM's questions about it. But from what I can see, you (*the CRS and mods*)do not have the answers because you are not a developer. The result is huge lag time between us asking, and you getting answers, if there is one that can be given OR the public thinks the points they are trying to make get lost/ignored somewhere between the CM's and the Developers.

And to make the matters worse, I think that when a feature is implemented and people really seems to dislike(*or like,*) there are so few cases for its reversal that people just believe you do not listen. I mean it is completely understandable from a players stand point because the telephone system is for the most part a 1-way street where the things we say will not be answered (I'm not saying they all should because that's too much for anyone to handle).

But when case after case, feature after feature and miscommunication after miscommunication occurs time and time again, it REALLY gets annoying on our end.

I know it's not easy on your end, but when a lot of people start asking questions, I think its only far that answers be given. Silence only creates turmoil and breeds anger because people have time invested in this game too.

In the end, I think when a change that effects mass groups of people, whether it is a unlocking event like dailies, *SGRS*, or a class mechanic, or an obvious problem with some classes/specs being OP, then more effort needs to be put in to help people understand. Because from where I sit, it is lacking pretty badly these days.

And please, do not quote twitter as being a source to communicate with the developers because we all know you can't truly answer the really tough problems of this game in just a few words.*

*The SGR thread learned that one the hard way.*

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.25.2012 , 01:43 PM | #3287
The thing is, Natashina, our community peeps talk to designers, writers and developers every day. The Dev Tracker has not been as busy lately, but most weeks there are at least a few posts from Allison Berryman relaying what she has heard from Developer Y or Designer X. The community team does have access to that information, and the writers, devs et al do have it.

Fourteen months ago, then Community Manager Stephen Reid said that the situation of this particular content made it something worth mentioning well in advance. Eight months ago, when Daniel Erickson spoke about this content, he did so in terms implying that they had been addressing it often, which they hadn't, and complained that they couldn't address it as often as it came up. Since they had addressed it exactly ONCE previously, this seems rather disingenuous, a way of mis-stating the circumstance rather than squarely facing the issue.

Since then, of course, we have heard nothing. And so far as these forums go I am talking about the post-Launch forums, the beta forums being unaccessible this topic has been addressed by the Community Team just once, in Joveth's post to this thread. Seeing as other topics have gotten multiple "we don't have anything to tell you" updates over a much shorter span, and some have received much more substantial status updates over less time, I don't think I will give the Community Team a pass on this one.

Nor do I feel any need to keep my mouth shut just because I am out of patience, and because my manners are shot. Using good manners, being helpful and counselling patience got me jack all. This content is being handled differently for the convenience of the community team, not for us. It has been routinely and uniformly passed over for comment whenever the community has been invited to ask questions of the development team, in spite of consistently being asked after by many forum members.

That is dismissive, it is rude, it is insulting. And by refusing to say anything, the Community Team is complicit with the trolls and naysayers who thus feel free to crap all over the idea. "Ooh! This is a hot-button issue!" The hell it is. EA and BioWare have been including it as a matter of course for years now. "Oh, I don't want my kids to see it!" Don't let them play the game. "Oh, I don't want to see it!" Then don't play the game.

If BioWare has decided to include this content, it should be on them, not on us, to defend its implementation. They won't. Nor will they tell us what they can. Neither of those leave me well-disposed to the company. Can anyone tell me why I should be?

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.25.2012 , 01:58 PM | #3288
I really shouldn't have checked the DA:I forums to see what the latest word was... seeing the likes of Gaider and Sheryl Chee actually giving answers (even to the stupid threads) and even making jokes even though there's a long time before release and things can change... and then there's this.

"Will we have to abandon alts/companion dialgoues at certain levels if we want to see SGR? We can wait, just let us know how to wait."
"We've no new information, on any aspect of SGR, yet."
"So... it's November - if you still don't know, does that mean it's not happening this year?"
"Just go with what we said back in March - that way, it's Erickson's fault."

Not only is it a depressing contrast, but it also kills the argument that "BioWare don't talk about things before they're done."

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.25.2012 , 02:27 PM | #3289
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
Not only is it a depressing contrast, but it also kills the argument that "BioWare don't talk about things before they're done."
Yes, but as many people have pointed out, Bioware and Bioware: Austin are two completely different companies which happen to have very similar names.

Or something.

They're totally not related at all and don't have the same production manifesto. Apparently.

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.25.2012 , 03:00 PM | #3290
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Yes, but as many people have pointed out, Bioware and Bioware: Austin are two completely different companies which happen to have very similar names.

Or something.

They're totally not related at all and don't have the same production manifesto. Apparently.
EA only care about spoilers for certain subdivisions - clear as mud... like everything else pertaining to this thread.