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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
11.23.2012 , 04:06 PM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by Danicony View Post
People seem to have a hard time grasping that marauders are melee, medium armour, in carnage/anni they only have one real gap closer (you can say force camo, but using it to initiate against anything save agents is stupid) so that basically implies that a knockback would **** up maras pretty badly.

People just need to learn how to use their abilities, it's not like undying rage gives CC immunity, and slows isn't affected by the resolve, neither is knockback.

I do agree that mara's force camo needs a 15-30 sec cooldown increase, as mentioned earlier.

But depriving maras of their survivability is just destroying the class as a whole. It's like removing cover from snipers.
1. Mars are NOT a *********** stealth class. They shouldn't have a *********** stealth skill to begin with especially when it exceeds the stealth integrity of a pure stealth class.

2. Mars defensive CD's are overpowered and have been for 6-8 months now. Keeping force camo is a ******** excuse for a class that isn't even a stealth class. Much less making it borderline impossible to force them out of it.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.23.2012 , 04:11 PM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by Danicony View Post
People seem to have a hard time grasping that marauders are melee, medium armour, in carnage/anni they only have one real gap closer (you can say force camo, but using it to initiate against anything save agents is stupid) so that basically implies that a knockback would **** up maras pretty badly.

People just need to learn how to use their abilities, it's not like undying rage gives CC immunity, and slows isn't affected by the resolve, neither is knockback.

I do agree that mara's force camo needs a 15-30 sec cooldown increase, as mentioned earlier.

But depriving maras of their survivability is just destroying the class as a whole. It's like removing cover from snipers.

Dude!!! You have the best survivability in the game!!! You have more than tanks, in tank gear, in tank spec! You do t need it for survivability because your survivability is most of what makes you OP! Great I stun your one def cool down... So what you have 2 more and force camo...

No other class... Has that many def cooldowns... And they are free! Available to every spec! You sacrifice nothing to gain everything. That is OP. you want to keep your def cooldowns? Drop your dps 25%. That is fair. You want your insane dps, lose 2 def cooldowns. Right now... You have everything!!!

If you need those cooldowns to dps so do ops, mercs, dps sages, and EVERY tank class.
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

Danicony's Avatar


Danicony
11.23.2012 , 04:31 PM | #223
Quote: Originally Posted by bglodt View Post
Dude!!! You have the best survivability in the game!!! You have more than tanks, in tank gear, in tank spec! You do t need it for survivability because your survivability is most of what makes you OP! Great I stun your one def cool down... So what you have 2 more and force camo...

No other class... Has that many def cooldowns... And they are free! Available to every spec! You sacrifice nothing to gain everything. That is OP. you want to keep your def cooldowns? Drop your dps 25%. That is fair. You want your insane dps, lose 2 def cooldowns. Right now... You have everything!!!

If you need those cooldowns to dps so do ops, mercs, dps sages, and EVERY tank class.
I don't think you've heard of the concept of variety. Take sorcs/sages, why would they need as many defensive cooldowns? I mean, it's not like they are supposed to jump head first into the enemy team.

The reason marauders got the defensive cooldowns they do is because it's an initially squishy class, that depends on its defensive CDs to be viable at all. And I'd say a lot of their defensive cds can be countered. How hard is it to gain distance between you and a mara? That would be ideal to shut down cloak of pain & undying rage. SWTOR pvp is all about knowing WHEN to use WHAT. People are only noticing how badly prepared they are to fight marauders now recently because of the patch that made rage management so easy, which in turn led to mass rage spec.

Basically, I am all for nerfing force smash/sweep, and upping the CD on force camo. But you in turn gotta remember, that maras doesnt have any real stuns, only stun they got is a rather counterproductive one, seeing as they stun themselves as well.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.23.2012 , 05:01 PM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by Danicony View Post
I don't think you've heard of the concept of variety. Take sorcs/sages, why would they need as many defensive cooldowns? I mean, it's not like they are supposed to jump head first into the enemy team.

The reason marauders got the defensive cooldowns they do is because it's an initially squishy class, that depends on its defensive CDs to be viable at all. And I'd say a lot of their defensive cds can be countered. How hard is it to gain distance between you and a mara? That would be ideal to shut down cloak of pain & undying rage. SWTOR pvp is all about knowing WHEN to use WHAT. People are only noticing how badly prepared they are to fight marauders now recently because of the patch that made rage management so easy, which in turn led to mass rage spec.

Basically, I am all for nerfing force smash/sweep, and upping the CD on force camo. But you in turn gotta remember, that maras doesnt have any real stuns, only stun they got is a rather counterproductive one, seeing as they stun themselves as well.
You don't need that many def cooldowns. I can keep saying this enough... You are more tanky and have greater survivability than tanks and do very high dps. And yes if Mara/sent need three cooldowns to be able to do viable dps because they are squishy... So do sorcs, ops, mercs, and all three trees of vanguard. You cannot have the best survivability and near best dps in the game and call that balanced... Ever. You do get a mez in awe, a channeled stun in stasis, a slow, and a gap closer with an immobilize for free! No talent points needed. More, abilities and improvements on the ones you already have with talents. That is unbalanced.

The counter to argument about sorcs is that they are supposed to be a ranged class and need those extra def cool down abilities to just survive melee to be able to do their damage. Tgat sounds ridiculous right? It's just as ridiculous as a Mara/sent saying it. I have one. I play it some times. Typically I pop my first cooldown continually push one button while I channel surf, after 10 seconds or so I pop the second... Push another button repeatedly, keep flipping channels... If other guy is still alive I hit guarded by the force, push my third button repeatedly and take a sip or three of water. If the guy is still alive and i havent found a channel i likeI med pak and force camo away. Then when I am hydrated and not channel surfing I go smash the war hero geared sorcs sages ops scoundrels mercs commandos in my BM gear... I avoid attacking the other classes because that would require me to pay less attention to my tv shows...
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.23.2012 , 05:10 PM | #225
And I hate to sound like a jerk but as long as sent/Mara have the best survivability... A gap closer.... And an escape mechanic AND still do very very very high dps... No one can really, with a straight face, and in all honesty, say that class is balanced when compared to troopers/bounty hunters smugglers/ops or sage/sorcs. Not so sure about assassin/shadows and jug/guardians.
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

Danicony's Avatar


Danicony
11.23.2012 , 05:23 PM | #226
Quote: Originally Posted by bglodt View Post
You don't need that many def cooldowns. I can keep saying this enough... You are more tanky and have greater survivability than tanks and do very high dps. And yes if Mara/sent need three cooldowns to be able to do viable dps because they are squishy... So do sorcs, ops, mercs, and all three trees of vanguard. You cannot have the best survivability and near best dps in the game and call that balanced... Ever. You do get a mez in awe, a channeled stun in stasis, a slow, and a gap closer with an immobilize for free! No talent points needed. More, abilities and improvements on the ones you already have with talents. That is unbalanced.

The counter to argument about sorcs is that they are supposed to be a ranged class and need those extra def cool down abilities to just survive melee to be able to do their damage. Tgat sounds ridiculous right? It's just as ridiculous as a Mara/sent saying it. I have one. I play it some times. Typically I pop my first cooldown continually push one button while I channel surf, after 10 seconds or so I pop the second... Push another button repeatedly, keep flipping channels... If other guy is still alive I hit guarded by the force, push my third button repeatedly and take a sip or three of water. If the guy is still alive and i havent found a channel i likeI med pak and force camo away. Then when I am hydrated and not channel surfing I go smash the war hero geared sorcs sages ops scoundrels mercs commandos in my BM gear... I avoid attacking the other classes because that would require me to pay less attention to my tv shows...
Just to correct you, you need 2/2 in "Stagger" from the carnage tree to have an immobilize effect on force charge. And if you took your time to look at what other classes have to fight maras, instead of looking at what they DON'T HAVE I'm sure you'll find pvp more enjoyable. Just like every competetive game, you have to improve yourself instead of talking down on your opponent. I am sure if you start looking at what you, as an individual can do to fight the marauder staring right at you. He got one slow which is melee and consumes two rage, that's one GCD you will have to use on building rage again (this is from a carnage mara perspective) The same mara will also boast a 1 sec immobilization from force charge due to being carnage. That's one gap closer save stealth.

Just send me a PM of which class ya play, and I'll try to indulge you in some counters to maras. A one liner would be: Just kite the batsh*t out of them.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.23.2012 , 05:39 PM | #227
And I hate to sound like a jerk but as long as sent/Mara have the best survivability... A gap closer.... And an escape mechanic AND still do very very very high dps... No one can really, with a straight face, and in all honesty, say that class is balanced when compared to troopers/bounty hunters smugglers/ops or sage/sorcs. Not so sure about assassin/shadows and jug/guardians.
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.23.2012 , 05:54 PM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by Danicony View Post
Just to correct you, you need 2/2 in "Stagger" from the carnage tree to have an immobilize effect on force charge..
No.

Wrong.

Stagger adds 1 second to the root- there's a 2 second natural root on force charge all classes have.

How, HOW do all you marauders continue to defend your class by still saying your class doesn't have things they actually do? Every single prominent defender of maras has been doing this for months- and it's mind boggling how little they know of their own class's mechanics.

Obviously if you ignore half the things your class is able to do you can pretend it's a balanced class- but anyone who isn't stupid is looking at you guys and saying 'well, another marauder who's completely full of ********.'.

This is force charge, no talent bonuses.

- does a mild amount of damage
- 10-30m gap closer
- 2 second immobilize
- interrupts
- builds 3 rage
- 15 seconds CD

Wow that's a good ability- builds resource, immobilizes, interrupts, max range and on a 15 second CD? And it can be improved to top it off.

Stop trying to sell it though as this ability that doesn't immobilize, or is so long your enemy's have CC on shorter CDs, that the class doesn't have top notch mobility, or that other classes can 'just kite at 30 m so a mara can't leap to you'.

Every single thread on this topic has marauders saying the same wrong things- maybe the reason you guys feel mara are balanced is because you're all absolutely terrible? Oh, not maybe- that is the reason, and it's obvious when you can never get your own abilities right.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.23.2012 , 06:18 PM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by Danicony View Post
People seem to have a hard time grasping that marauders are melee, medium armour, in carnage/anni they only have one real gap closer (you can say force camo, but using it to initiate against anything save agents is stupid) so that basically implies that a knockback would **** up maras pretty badly.

People just need to learn how to use their abilities, it's not like undying rage gives CC immunity, and slows isn't affected by the resolve, neither is knockback.

I do agree that mara's force camo needs a 15-30 sec cooldown increase, as mentioned earlier.

But depriving maras of their survivability is just destroying the class as a whole. It's like removing cover from snipers.
Stop downplaying Marauders gap closing abilities. I didn't even hear you mention Predation once, which is one of their best gap closers...and hey...what-do-you know also doubles as a defensive cooldown if you know what else it does other than make you faster.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.23.2012 , 07:44 PM | #230
Quote: Originally Posted by Danicony View Post
Just to correct you, you need 2/2 in "Stagger" from the carnage tree to have an immobilize effect on force charge. And if you took your time to look at what other classes have to fight maras, instead of looking at what they DON'T HAVE I'm sure you'll find pvp more enjoyable. Just like every competetive game, you have to improve yourself instead of talking down on your opponent. I am sure if you start looking at what you, as an individual can do to fight the marauder staring right at you. He got one slow which is melee and consumes two rage, that's one GCD you will have to use on building rage again (this is from a carnage mara perspective) The same mara will also boast a 1 sec immobilization from force charge due to being carnage. That's one gap closer save stealth.

Just send me a PM of which class ya play, and I'll try to indulge you in some counters to maras. A one liner would be: Just kite the batsh*t out of them.
Yea... I play a sentinel too genius. Nd they are OP... Vastly. They tank better than tanks, have an escape, and do great dps. How about you send me a pm and i will re-explain ad nauseous how you ha e more tools than any other class to do just one job.
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.