Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Dread Guard Relic BiS?


OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.23.2012 , 04:11 AM | #91
Ok, so did some testing on a dummy with my guardian, switching between various stance states (fun bit: it appears that straight damage boost %'s in your talent tree affect the relic, such as stance boosts, and the associated talents.


Target: Operations Training Target MK-5
Dread Guard Relic of the Kinetic Tempest


No stance/No Armor debuff/No armor talent (tooltip damage of 280, for reference):

Non-crit: 182 Crit: 325

Commando/Guardian Armor Debuff/No Stance/No talent
Non-crit: 196 Crit: 349

_______________
I had a commando there applying the armor debuff, so I tested with both, and they were the same number. Someone inferred that the commando debuff reduced armor more (don't remember who), so I wanted to check that, and the numbers were the same for both, so looks like a negatory. From here on out, using only the guardian debuff.
_______________


Shien Stance/No Armor Debuff (with single-saber Mastery Talent)
Tooltip damage goes from 280 to 315, but only after you unequip it.
Non-crit: 193 Crit: 344

With armor Debuff:
Non-Crit: 207 Crit: 370


Shii-Cho Stance (no mastery talent)(Tooltip reads 297):
Non-crit: 187 Crit: 335

With Armor Debuff
Non-Crit: 202 Crit: 360



So, fun note before I spec over to Focus (I normally play vigilance so it was my starting point). The tooltips seem to be doing some funny things. When I go from no stance to shien, the tooltip changes from 280 to 315, an increase of 12.5%, however the damage on the dummy goes from 182 to 193, an increase of 6.04% (what I would expect with the shien increase). And then, when I go from no stance to shii-cho, the tooltip goes from 280 to 297, an increase of 6.07%, however the damage again goes from 182 to 187, an increase of 2.75%.It appears the tooltips are somehow doubling the stance increase amount. I have no clue as to the cause or reasoning of this, but thought it was an interesting note.


It seems that anyone without any armor penetration in their talents should be using the elemental or internal relics, as even with the 6% from shien stance and 5 stacks of my armor debuff, the kinetic relic hit for less than the 210 baseline of the elemental/internal relics, assuming that boss armor values are constant and consistent with the MK-5 training dummy, and armor debuffs correctly do not stack.


OK, now over to focus spec.

First off, confirmed that the single-saber mastery talent does not affect damage of the relic in Shii-Cho. This is of course the "kinetic damage" relic though, so I was not expecting to. Can't really test shien stance without single saber mastery though... But since the numbers come out to just a 6% increase, but my guess is a no. Might test on a energy damage relic, but I'm guessing also a no, as the talent specifies force/melee, and the relics are talking kin/ene/ele/int, but I wanted to make sure.


Shii-cho stance/No Armor Debuff/Shii-cho mastery talent (30% armor penetration)(tooltip reads 297 still)
Non-Crit: 209 Crit: 374

Shii-Cho stance/Full Armor Debuff/Shii Cho Mastery Talent
Non-Crit: 222 Crit: 396


Alright, so it looks like the armor mastery brought the non-debuffed damage from 187 to 209, and the debuffed damage from 202 to 222. Was an increase of 11.76% damage without the debuff, and an increase of 9.90% damage with the debuff. The baseline damage going from no buffs to just the armor debuff was an increase of 7.69%.



So, I think it's safe to say that armor debuff does indeed stack directly with armor penetration in talents, as it provided roughly the same damage increase whether the target had the debuff or not.


If you've got armor penetration in your talent tree, go with the kinetic/energy damage, it'll be about 6% better for focus guardian than the elemental or internal's baseline 210.

If you don't have armor penetration in your talent tree, go with internal/elemental, the kin/energy will hit for about 196, about 6.6% less than the int/ele's baseline 210.


Alright, done with this for now. Let me know what you think.


Oh, one last thing:

The campaign relic (kinetic) hits for baseline 160, so the baseline 182 of the dread guard relic is about 13.75% better, but that would have been apparent with tooltips anyway.



Edit: Did some editing, I don't have any office programs on this computer and wrote that **** in notepad, shoulda figured it wouldn't copypaste over correctly.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
11.23.2012 , 06:15 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
I had a commando there applying the armor debuff, so I tested with both, and they were the same number. Someone inferred that the commando debuff reduced armor more (don't remember who), so I wanted to check that, and the numbers were the same for both, so looks like a negatory. From here on out, using only the guardian debuff.
Just clearing out something: The commando debuff on the target is 20% at 5 stacks, like the guardian one. But a gunnery commando has an additional 35% AP bonus for HIMSELF due to stance

TheBigGregski's Avatar


TheBigGregski
11.23.2012 , 06:54 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Just clearing out something: The commando debuff on the target is 20% at 5 stacks, like the guardian one. But a gunnery commando has an additional 35% AP bonus for HIMSELF due to stance
Don't forget the additional 30% armor pen on HiB and full auto. Don't know if this have an impact on the procs.

Anyway, A huge thank you to all this troll-free thread's contributors

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
11.23.2012 , 07:08 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBigGregski View Post
Don't forget the additional 30% armor pen on HiB and full auto. Don't know if this have an impact on the procs.

Anyway, A huge thank you to all this troll-free thread's contributors
That will ahve zero bearing on the proc, only affects HiB/FA. Would be mroe curious to see how the elemental damage relic scales with VG's/PT's though, anyone done any testing with them?

And fantastic works peeps.Keep it up

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
11.23.2012 , 07:57 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Karasuko View Post
That will ahve zero bearing on the proc, only affects HiB/FA. Would be mroe curious to see how the elemental damage relic scales with VG's/PT's though, anyone done any testing with them?

And fantastic works peeps.Keep it up
AFAIK it's been tested and it does scale. Not only that but from what I understood, it also benefits from crit chance bonuses the sentinel watchman tree gets.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
11.23.2012 , 08:28 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Stats as they are in game right now:
Campaign Relic of Ephemeral Mending:
+84 Endurance
443 health over 3 secs every 20 secs

Dread Guard Relic of Ephemeral Mending:
+64 Endurance
+47 Power
505 health over 3 secs every 20 secs

Chance to proc is 50% on both

-----

Adding the other tanking relics so if you want to compare for the second relic:
Dread Guard Relic of Shield Amplification
+95 Endurance
+455 Absorb Rating, for 6 secs every 20 secs (Apparently 100% chance on shield)

Dread Guard Relic of Shrouded Crusader
+95 Endurance
Clickable +215 Shield and Absorb for 20 secs

Dread Guard Relic of Imperiling Serenity
+95 Endurance
Clickable +350 Defense Rating for 20 secs
Ok, so even with the endurance loss, the DG healer relic is still an upgrade, albeit a very small one (over the Campaign healer relic). So, I would still put that relic as first BiS. As for the second relic, the proc absorb and activated relics are actually quite bad. They work, but they're very underwhelming compared to the healing relic. A better choice for now is the War Hero defense relic, which is about 65% better than the next closest contender (the proc absorb). Once the Elite War Hero defense relic comes out, it will be an even more compelling choice.

So, 1.5 BiS for an assassin/shadow tank are: Dread Guard Relic of Ephemeral Mending and the War Hero Relic of Imperiling Serenity.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.23.2012 , 11:14 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Just clearing out something: The commando debuff on the target is 20% at 5 stacks, like the guardian one. But a gunnery commando has an additional 35% AP bonus for HIMSELF due to stance
Ah ok. Yeah, it's an additional 30% for focus guard/rage jugg on top of the debuff. I was mostly responding to some false information that I thought I had read.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Envyyyyyyy's Avatar


Envyyyyyyy
11.23.2012 , 02:27 PM | #98
So i've been following this thread and its great. I love the positive help in here. Gives me faith in the community.


however I have a 50 sage/sent/vanguard all in full 63 both with war hero relics on them each.
What would be BIS for the
Sage
Vanguard
Sent
all dps dot spec.

P.S.
I love you guys for doing the number crunching. My entire guild has been giving you guys props.
Vital (Shadow) Mondavi (Guardian) Midnight (Sage) Lavado (sorcerer) Enviously (Vanguard) Avaya (Operative) Anderson (Sentinel)
Thats No Moon (Founder / GM)

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.23.2012 , 02:43 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Envyyyyyyy View Post
So i've been following this thread and its great. I love the positive help in here. Gives me faith in the community.


however I have a 50 sage/sent/vanguard all in full 63 both with war hero relics on them each.
What would be BIS for the
Sage
Vanguard
Sent
all dps dot spec.

P.S.
I love you guys for doing the number crunching. My entire guild has been giving you guys props.
None of those specs have armor penetration, so you're best off with either the internal or the elemental proc relic, (either one is fine), and the on-use power relic.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
11.23.2012 , 03:27 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
None of those specs have armor penetration, so you're best off with either the internal or the elemental proc relic, (either one is fine), and the on-use power relic.
I'm not sure.
Did they ever fix the Crit-chance-bug on the internal-version?