Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Nerf


BlownSi's Avatar


BlownSi
11.20.2012 , 09:54 AM | #11
I still laugh at the people who play in WZ's and worry about if they are topping the damage charts or not. Who cares?! As long as you are viable to the team effort to win the match, then you are good to go. Hell, I run a Jugg in tank spec and DPS gear. I am there for one reason and one reason only; to cause havoc in an opposing team's attack by using taunts, stuns, knockbacks, intimidation, etc. and allowing time for my team to pick them apart.

Though I concede the OP's point that Rage spec'ed Smash is a little OP right now, Rage Jugg does not need to be totally nerfed. Smash just needs to be toned down a bit.

Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
11.20.2012 , 10:01 AM | #12
I was worried about this when i saw all the threads about Rage being the "best" spec for Jugg's. I'm glad they have a viable PvP spec, but not at the expense of balance. And I REALLY don't like having a bunch of FotM players tainting my favorite class.

If they nerfed rage into the ground, I wouldn't cry one bit. What they really need to do is simply tone down the damage of the smash, and increase the single target damage of the spec in a proportionate way. the overall damage for the spec isn't out of whack right now....its how it ends up working out in PvP that's really the issue. so move some of that bonus damage over to their spec abilities (Obliterate and force crush), and that should be fine.

MaximusRex's Avatar


MaximusRex
11.20.2012 , 12:21 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir_Galapagos View Post
you can't always seed people coming from 30 meters and during the match i was describing i was crit for 6k from a jugg just coming out of spawn and with force push followed by a choke you can be stuned for almost 6 seconds.
Only Immortal Juggs can attach while using force choke, otherwise the warrior has to channel it. That means they can't do any damage other then the force choke during that time. That is clearly quite different then a stun that allows you to be attacked while incapacitated.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
11.20.2012 , 12:27 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
The fallacious nature of the Rock, Paper, Scissors arguments is getting quite annoying.

Do you not realize that essentially this point of view is advocating a Hard Counter System that concedes a priori that there are classes which should simply not be capable of competing against other classes in PVP?

Before 1.2 Hybrid Sorcs were the target of immense complaints and QQ.
The concern was that with a specific build it was possible for those players to average 350k damage per Warzone while veteran and elite players could and did push into the 800k total damage range.

The community essentially raged over the imbalance of always seeing that class at the top of the damage charts (not noticing that if you stacked statistics by kills Sorcs fell into the middle of the pack) and eventually Bioware destroyed the entire Hybrid build in one fell swoop.

Marauders and Juggernauts now utilize a Rage-spec that can produce more total damage overall than the Hybrid Sorc ever could, and do so in a manner (intense burst) that allows them to continuously exceed kill #s by a significant portion.

If the 1.2-Nerf to Sorcs was a legitimate move by Bioware to ensure the balance of PVP I would expect Marauders to be next. Their combination of Hit Points, Defensive Cool downs, and Burst-Intensive damage mechanics is a threat to overall PVP balance.

It should be readily apparent to the community that Rage-spec is horribly unbalanced when the only viable counter to it (Bubble-Stun Spam) is itself an unbalanced mechanic.

The best Hyrbid-Sorcs boasted of 800k DMG Warzones and kill totals in the 30-40 range.

The best Rage-spec are now boasting of 1Million DMG Warzones and kill totals exceeding 50.

I am sorry, those of you clinging to the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" analogy or any other defense of Rage-spec mechanics are doing so out of fear of the eventual Nerf, and principally out of the hope that Bioware patches PVP based on Forum Posts which your defense is attempting to moderate.

This is not a case of Hard Counters complaining about an inability to rule Warzones.

This is the case of a dominant PVP-spec that can and does rule Warzones in nominal and significant statistics declaring they are perfectly situated....at the top of the mountain.

I want to see a 5% DMG spread in these classes; that means Marauders and to a lesser extent Juggernaughts need to be brought down, and a number of classes need to be brought up.

PVP should be about Skill; Not stacking Rage-spec and Bubble-Stun players with a few healers and rolling through to easy wins.
This. 'Nuff said.

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
11.21.2012 , 06:50 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
I would expect Marauders to be next. Their combination of Hit Points, Defensive Cool downs, and Burst-Intensive damage mechanics is a threat to overall PVP balance.

It should be readily apparent to the community that Rage-spec is horribly unbalanced when the only viable counter to it (Bubble-Stun Spam) is itself an unbalanced mechanic.

The best Hyrbid-Sorcs boasted of 800k DMG Warzones and kill totals in the 30-40 range.

The best Rage-spec are now boasting of 1Million DMG Warzones and kill totals exceeding 50.

I am sorry, those of you clinging to the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" analogy or any other defense of Rage-spec mechanics are doing so out of fear of the eventual Nerf, and principally out of the hope that Bioware patches PVP based on Forum Posts which your defense is attempting to moderate.

This is not a case of Hard Counters complaining about an inability to rule Warzones.

This is the case of a dominant PVP-spec that can and does rule Warzones in nominal and significant statistics declaring they are perfectly situated....at the top of the mountain.

I want to see a 5% DMG spread in these classes; that means Marauders and to a lesser extent Juggernaughts need to be brought down, and a number of classes need to be brought up.

PVP should be about Skill; Not stacking Rage-spec and Bubble-Stun players with a few healers and rolling through to easy wins.
Hi HPs of Marauders, eh? I have seen operatives and Sages with more HPs than I have in warzones. I am full war hero with elite war hero weapons. Very itemized Marauders will only have mid 19k HPs with all buffs. We do have strong defensive cool downs and that is because we are a medium armor class who has a very strategic and ephemeral cloak which lasts a MAXIMUM of 6 seconds (talented late in Annihilation). Otherwise it lasts only 4 seconds and it is on a 45 second cool down. We also have virtually no ranged capability and while we are meant for protracted engagements, we have to build our resources which places us in awkward positions at times necessitating those cooldowns. I have no fewer than 26 keybinds, any one of which I might need at a given moment. It is a complicated class with a lot of options which is both a celebrated feature as well as a curse.

Look, I tend to agree that Smash needs a nerf. It's a bit ridiculous right now (incidentally, I am carnage), but before we nerf anything, stun bubbles and the 100% armor penetration of Assault/Pyro PTs needs to be investigated (100% armor penetration because they largely use elemental damage and it ignores armor ).

Another thing. Mercenaries and Commandos need more--something. Unless I encounter only inexperienced players, they are not that difficult to remove from the field.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
11.22.2012 , 12:27 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Sappharan View Post
Look, I tend to agree that Smash needs a nerf. It's a bit ridiculous right now (incidentally, I am carnage), but before we nerf anything, stun bubbles and the 100% armor penetration of Assault/Pyro PTs needs to be investigated (100% armor penetration because they largely use elemental damage and it ignores armor ).
No, sorcerers and sages don't need another nerf. And while PTs are a bit OP, Marauders are still by far the OP flavor of the month class most in need of a nerf.

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
11.22.2012 , 12:38 AM | #17
Well, maybe you should take into consideration of the changes that are done to keep the pvp'ers quiet, considering that most, if not all cause the pve part of the game to be negatively affected by it.

For example, the stuns of all the classes, it might have made sense for pvp, but for pve, its just a horrid change, especially for the more ranged ACs.

This is why i tend to avoid pvp, if you do well, your class gets nerfed, because the loser moans and moans, until the changes are made to shut them up.....bioware needs to not do that

SneekyPanda's Avatar


SneekyPanda
11.24.2012 , 01:43 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
Well, maybe you should take into consideration of the changes that are done to keep the pvp'ers quiet, considering that most, if not all cause the pve part of the game to be negatively affected by it.

For example, the stuns of all the classes, it might have made sense for pvp, but for pve, its just a horrid change, especially for the more ranged ACs.

This is why i tend to avoid pvp, if you do well, your class gets nerfed, because the loser moans and moans, until the changes are made to shut them up.....bioware needs to not do that
Are you kidding?

First of all, there's a few guilds on my server that are clearing all the PVE content that is out currently, and I know for a fact that at least 2 of them run with a balanced group- so, if you're having issues in PVE then it's skill to blame.

PVP is a huge part of this game and when you get SO many people complaining about the SAME thing, it NEEDS to be changed. I have played two classes regularly up until a couple of weeks ago: a Seer Sage and a Focus Guardian. I stopped playing the Guardian for the same reason I stopped playing my PT a while back- it stopped being fun completely crushing multiple enemies without having to even think about it. I was on the phone with my gf while I went to a node and 1v3'd these Imps and took it- regardless of their skill, that should NEVER happen even with my full attention, let alone while I'm thinking of groceries we need at the house.

As for my Sage- I love healing. I love kiting. I have been playing my Sage long enough to be very good at kiting. Against Sorcs, Assassins, Snipers, Ops and Mercs I have no trouble healing others while I kite them; and a couple of those classes I don't really have to worry much about having to kite. When it comes to PTs, Maras and Smash Juggs coming after me, I can do nothing BUT kite them while I heal myself. because I can't cleanse the PTs spammable slow, they give me the most problem- but for the most part I can stay alive as long as it's just them on me. When it comes to a Mara or Jugg, they aren't that big of a deal- I know their mechanics well enough to blow my sprint at the right time and cleanse when I need to and I'm okay with their damage on single targets. but this all comes down to one thing: Smash. The fact that they have a skill that can hit me- a fully optimized, min/max'd WH Sage (with 2 pieces of EWH mods/enh) for nearly 7k while simultaneously hitting 4 others for the same, it's something that can't be healed through.

And it's not like every team I face has one of these monsters, it's 3 to 5 on EVERY team. I am in one of the top ranked PVP guilds on my server, and at times we have found ourselves in a regular WZ with a double premade (granted it's just a random 8 of us and not a refined group we would take into a RWZ) and have been utterly obliterated because we're facing a team of 5+ Smashers that our best healers can't handle.

When I get a guard in a game, I have to make clear to them that if a Smash beast is on me, they are not allowed to try peeling them because having my guard in melee range of me means that they are in smash range of them and they end up taking incredible damage (6.5k+another 3k from the guard).

So, don't come here and tell us that we're ************ and moaning over some non-issue and that your poor mindless PVE will be ruined over an AoE nurf. this is a major issue that I have seen 3 people stop playing over- one of which was a Sentinel that just doesn't find it fun to be so OP. Like I said, I stopped playing my Guardian for the same reason, and I'm on the brink of quitting my healer because of how stupid this whole thing is.

GhostHei's Avatar


GhostHei
11.24.2012 , 02:18 PM | #19
The trick is really how to tone down smash for pvp while keeping the spec competitive for pve.

mrekxxx's Avatar


mrekxxx
11.25.2012 , 03:17 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by GhostHei View Post
The trick is really how to tone down smash for pvp while keeping the spec competitive for pve.
yeah this is important question ...