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Lets mix things up a bit and get some real classes.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Lets mix things up a bit and get some real classes.

IronScarlet's Avatar


IronScarlet
11.18.2012 , 07:26 PM | #1
Immortal is not really Immortal and Hybrid gives you more of the feeling of real Immortality than the skill tree Immortal. Vengeance looks like a confused dps class. Rage has always been ok now it just fotm.

More and more are converting Hybrid why not just makes that the tanks build.

Some people say Immortal needs damage but there are already heavy damage tanks, why not leave the damage sub-par and add the mitigation of hybrid to immortal making it now on par with pt mitigation with more CD, less damage = Immortal now has a nitch in the tanker line.

Remove and Replace
Switch Crushing blow for Unstoppable same 20% reduction and CC immunity (adjust) add a small aoe taunt with force leap

Add deafening defiance to Dark blood

Add retaliation to Heavy handed

Double the damage to backhand

Sonic barrier, Double the mitigation or at least boost it by 1/3 (equal hybrid).



Vengeance, now sits as a sturdy dps class, but as we know vengeance dps does not compensate for slightly toughness. I say throw away some of the toughness and make the back loaded damage more powerful. Make the new vengeance like wrecking ball. Slow to start but once it gets going and can keep it up, it is devastating. Same damage as rage just reversed instead of front load smash, vengeance has back loaded bleeds with options.

For the replacement of deafening defiance add a 3 point skill called “True vengeance” Increases critical chance of bleed effects by 30% and all bleed crit adds 6% resistance for 10 sec. This will basically give 6-18% resistance in 1v1 and maybe up to a max of 24% if u can mange rage and bleeds between 2 opponents.

And now crushing blow in vengeance slightly changes; upon 5 stack of sunder, will consume and add a heavy damage bleed 2k over 15sec. Think 15-30 sec set up 5 sunders 8 rage combo ( Crushing blow, sunder,shatter) watch there face melt.

Revert pooled hatred back to its previous state.

Now I know people will hate me saying this but, remove Ruin from the game. Why it has no real place in vengeance. Vengeance is saber combat and bleeds. Why a free force attack?
Replace it with a team buff.
Demolisher, upon a opponents defeat gives you’re team a 20% critical buff or CC immunity to players for 30 sec cant occur more than once every 2:30 min. (anyone have a better team buff any ideas?) I like a buff after the death of an opponent because it goes with vengeance, its a wrecking ball one it gets going.


That just my idea, we all know Immortal is worthless, and we all debate if vengeance toughness compensate for its dps. This is my fix, I would love to see 3 distinct alternatives for the most popular class.

Now we have
Immortal= what damage? Vengeance= Confused class? Rage= Frontload spike

My alternative
Immortal= who cares about damage. Vengeance= mega back loaded damage. Rage= Frontloaded spike.

Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
11.21.2012 , 11:29 AM | #2
i actually like many of those ideas. I've always felt that our bleeds are a singular separation for Vengeance players from the other specs. highlighting this via other talents would be a great way to increase our DPS in a flexible manner.

and the mobility ideas for Immortal are great. aside from complete lack of DPS, we need more of an identity. increasing our resistance in a dynamic way can make the mitigation process more fun, and the extra mobility would be incredibly awesome.

Some other ideas:

Heavy Handed should be a minimum 15%, not 8.

Crushing fist should turn Smash into a "Smart" AoE, in addition to the sunder stacks. Im not to worried about the threat, as I don't want to intrude into Assassin/shadow territory, but we need a smart AoE to be able to maximize our selection of attacks....Smash is now a critical ability for Immortal to stack sunder fast.

changing sonic barrier may be over the top...we are already know as the kings of mitigation. And I regularly get that from healers, not just tanks. they like healing us better due to more stable incoming damage. So too much extra mitigation and we become the only option for tanking (which is bad). the resistance idea is good, but we'll probably need to make sure that percentage, again, doesn't push us up over other tanks....being on par with them is fine, but if we get too many advantages, people cease to use other tanks

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
11.22.2012 , 12:14 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by IronScarlet View Post
Immortal is not really Immortal and Hybrid gives you more of the feeling of real Immortality than the skill tree Immortal. Vengeance looks like a confused dps class. Rage has always been ok now it just fotm.

More and more are converting Hybrid why not just makes that the tanks build.

Some people say Immortal needs damage but there are already heavy damage tanks, why not leave the damage sub-par and add the mitigation of hybrid to immortal making it now on par with pt mitigation with more CD, less damage = Immortal now has a nitch in the tanker line.

Remove and Replace
Switch Crushing blow for Unstoppable same 20% reduction and CC immunity (adjust) add a small aoe taunt with force leap

Add deafening defiance to Dark blood

Add retaliation to Heavy handed

Double the damage to backhand

Sonic barrier, Double the mitigation or at least boost it by 1/3 (equal hybrid).



Vengeance, now sits as a sturdy dps class, but as we know vengeance dps does not compensate for slightly toughness. I say throw away some of the toughness and make the back loaded damage more powerful. Make the new vengeance like wrecking ball. Slow to start but once it gets going and can keep it up, it is devastating. Same damage as rage just reversed instead of front load smash, vengeance has back loaded bleeds with options.

For the replacement of deafening defiance add a 3 point skill called “True vengeance” Increases critical chance of bleed effects by 30% and all bleed crit adds 6% resistance for 10 sec. This will basically give 6-18% resistance in 1v1 and maybe up to a max of 24% if u can mange rage and bleeds between 2 opponents.

And now crushing blow in vengeance slightly changes; upon 5 stack of sunder, will consume and add a heavy damage bleed 2k over 15sec. Think 15-30 sec set up 5 sunders 8 rage combo ( Crushing blow, sunder,shatter) watch there face melt.

Revert pooled hatred back to its previous state.

Now I know people will hate me saying this but, remove Ruin from the game. Why it has no real place in vengeance. Vengeance is saber combat and bleeds. Why a free force attack?
Replace it with a team buff.
Demolisher, upon a opponents defeat gives you’re team a 20% critical buff or CC immunity to players for 30 sec cant occur more than once every 2:30 min. (anyone have a better team buff any ideas?) I like a buff after the death of an opponent because it goes with vengeance, its a wrecking ball one it gets going.


That just my idea, we all know Immortal is worthless, and we all debate if vengeance toughness compensate for its dps. This is my fix, I would love to see 3 distinct alternatives for the most popular class.

Now we have
Immortal= what damage? Vengeance= Confused class? Rage= Frontload spike

My alternative
Immortal= who cares about damage. Vengeance= mega back loaded damage. Rage= Frontloaded spike.
The problem here with your 'slow to start, but a nightmare if maintained' is not really that good for pve while leveling, since the enemies are attacking at maximum dps they can do (besides castable abilities) at all times, while we have to 'slow' build up to max damage, by the time we are there, we tend to be pretty much dead.

What Vengeance and Vigiliance truely needs right now is to get to their maximum potential faster, Marauder/Sentinels get to their maximum potential very fast, Vengeance and Vigiliance needs to do that too, because right now, unless you spec as a tank, it feels like Vengeance and Vigiliance is quite gimped.

krarom's Avatar


krarom
11.23.2012 , 01:47 AM | #4
Hi!

i usually dont look into all reamke thoughts, but u actually have very valid points. Would be fun like u said if vengeance dots ticked cumulatively or something. Many other nice ideas

best regards
kraroc

HuricaneONE's Avatar


HuricaneONE
11.24.2012 , 06:01 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by IronScarlet View Post
Immortal is not really Immortal and Hybrid gives you more of the feeling of real Immortality than the skill tree Immortal. Vengeance looks like a confused dps class. Rage has always been ok now it just fotm.

More and more are converting Hybrid why not just makes that the tanks build.

Some people say Immortal needs damage but there are already heavy damage tanks, why not leave the damage sub-par and add the mitigation of hybrid to immortal making it now on par with pt mitigation with more CD, less damage = Immortal now has a nitch in the tanker line.

Remove and Replace
Switch Crushing blow for Unstoppable same 20% reduction and CC immunity (adjust) add a small aoe taunt with force leap

Add deafening defiance to Dark blood

Add retaliation to Heavy handed

Double the damage to backhand

Sonic barrier, Double the mitigation or at least boost it by 1/3 (equal hybrid).



Vengeance, now sits as a sturdy dps class, but as we know vengeance dps does not compensate for slightly toughness. I say throw away some of the toughness and make the back loaded damage more powerful. Make the new vengeance like wrecking ball. Slow to start but once it gets going and can keep it up, it is devastating. Same damage as rage just reversed instead of front load smash, vengeance has back loaded bleeds with options.

For the replacement of deafening defiance add a 3 point skill called “True vengeance” Increases critical chance of bleed effects by 30% and all bleed crit adds 6% resistance for 10 sec. This will basically give 6-18% resistance in 1v1 and maybe up to a max of 24% if u can mange rage and bleeds between 2 opponents.

And now crushing blow in vengeance slightly changes; upon 5 stack of sunder, will consume and add a heavy damage bleed 2k over 15sec. Think 15-30 sec set up 5 sunders 8 rage combo ( Crushing blow, sunder,shatter) watch there face melt.

Revert pooled hatred back to its previous state.

Now I know people will hate me saying this but, remove Ruin from the game. Why it has no real place in vengeance. Vengeance is saber combat and bleeds. Why a free force attack?
Replace it with a team buff.
Demolisher, upon a opponents defeat gives you’re team a 20% critical buff or CC immunity to players for 30 sec cant occur more than once every 2:30 min. (anyone have a better team buff any ideas?) I like a buff after the death of an opponent because it goes with vengeance, its a wrecking ball one it gets going.


That just my idea, we all know Immortal is worthless, and we all debate if vengeance toughness compensate for its dps. This is my fix, I would love to see 3 distinct alternatives for the most popular class.

Now we have
Immortal= what damage? Vengeance= Confused class? Rage= Frontload spike

My alternative
Immortal= who cares about damage. Vengeance= mega back loaded damage. Rage= Frontloaded spike.
As someone who mainly PVPs, I am often pretty frustrated that vengeance isn't as viable as rage. It has been my understanding that rage mostly uses force attacks whereas vengeance uses saber attacks. Although rage can be fun, I originally chose Jug so that I could do big damage with big powerful blows from my single lightsaber (not very fond of the aesthetic of dual wielding sabers), but vengeance is pretty disappointing in this regard.

Please devs, please listen to this guy. Vengeance needs these changes to become viable in group pvp. Sure we have rage, but I personally would much rather use saber attacks.