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Let the Jedi use his light saber

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Let the Jedi use his light saber

Aital's Avatar


Aital
11.21.2012 , 07:30 AM | #81
PEAK DAMAGE OF THE OVERALL ROTATION NOT THE SPECIFIC SPELL. IF IT DOES NOT RAISE THE POTENTIAL MAX DAMAGE OR PEAK ROTATIONS IT IS NOT A BALANCE FACTOR BY LOGIC. IT IS BELOW ALL OTHER SPELLS IN ROTATION AND CANNOT RAISE ANY ROTATION OR TOTAL DAMAGE OUTPUTS CONSIDERED HIGHEST IN THE GAME THAT DOES NOT SACRIFICE DAMAGE PURPOSELESS MEANING IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO BECOME A BALANCE FACTOR GIVEN THE PARAMETERS OF THE GAME. YES I'M INCLUDING OTHER FACTORS OF THE GAME WHILE YOU PLAY PRACTICALLY BUT THOSE ARE NOT AFFECTED LOGICALLY IN A WAY THAT IS A BALANCE FACTOR BECAUSE OF THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS ARGUMENT AND HOW A SAGE WORKS!

Stop making stupid arguments. You don't even understand what is being stated around you and what you are stating is of no matter to the argument. What you are saying is simple.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.21.2012 , 07:41 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Aital View Post
PEAK DAMAGE OF THE OVERALL ROTATION NOT THE SPECIFIC SPELL. IF IT DOES NOT RAISE THE POTENTIAL MAX DAMAGE OR PEAK ROTATIONS IT IS NOT A BALANCE FACTOR BY LOGIC. IT IS BELOW ALL OTHER SPELLS IN ROTATION AND CANNOT RAISE ANY ROTATION OR TOTAL DAMAGE OUTPUTS CONSIDERED HIGHEST IN THE GAME THAT DOES NOT SACRIFICE DAMAGE PURPOSELESS MEANING IT DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO BECOME A BALANCE FACTOR GIVEN THE PARAMETERS OF THE GAME. YES I'M INCLUDING OTHER FACTORS OF THE GAME WHILE YOU PLAY PRACTICALLY BUT THOSE ARE NOT AFFECTED LOGICALLY IN A WAY THAT IS A BALANCE FACTOR BECAUSE OF THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS ARGUMENT AND HOW A SAGE WORKS!

Stop making stupid arguments. You don't even understand what is being stated around you and what you are stating is of no matter to the argument. What you are saying is simple.
Any ideas why they would have removed WP bonus dmg from sages in melee?
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Aital's Avatar


Aital
11.21.2012 , 07:44 AM | #83
No I don't. but from the current game mechanics there is no reason to leave it out.

Do you? I would love to learn that.

BTW I can see many potential reason why but none of them are applicable. They mostly consist of not finishing their work.

Here's how you argue it the reverse way to start testing that question logically.

What is the reason to put it exactly where it is?

yes it, is usable in lower levels. But what is the point of it not being usable in higher lvs. Especially when it is useful. It would basically be a short range project for emergencies. And the other attack obviously would be useful for different specs for regen. I see no reason it should not be usable at higher lv. they can easily make changes at lower lv if it's too high at lower lvs to make it balanced along the way. In fact it may make it more interesting to play as you lv up and gain more powerful other abilities slower making it more RP like as far as feel. it becomes useless around LV 10 from what I can remember about playing my sage, though I'm very fussy on that one.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.21.2012 , 07:45 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Aital View Post
No I don't. but from the current game mechanics there is no reason to leave it out.
Thanks. I'll give you some time to mull it all over and we can take this up again tomorrow if you insist.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Aital's Avatar


Aital
11.21.2012 , 07:50 AM | #85
ycoga one you need to shutup. Two you need to realize that you are lazy and have not put a single ounce or work into this argument. All you have done is ask others to pull their weight asking questions you would not and will not put in the work of answering yourself and then making mocking stupid unproductive comments. So why don't you get to work and make a productive intelligent comment that adds to the overall knowledge of the thread(that does not mean your opinion that mean prove your opinion and demonstrate it in a way others can understand fully how you got it and are correct.) or stop slandering people in the thread!

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.21.2012 , 09:14 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Aital View Post
ycoga one you need to shutup. Two you need to realize that you are lazy and have not put a single ounce or work into this argument. All you have done is ask others to pull their weight asking questions you would not and will not put in the work of answering yourself and then making mocking stupid unproductive comments. So why don't you get to work and make a productive intelligent comment that adds to the overall knowledge of the thread(that does not mean your opinion that mean prove your opinion and demonstrate it in a way others can understand fully how you got it and are correct.) or stop slandering people in the thread!
That definitely goes for you as well. If you can dish it out you should be able to take it too. I haven't shouted at you using caps. The reason I havent bought your argument yet is that it's flawed in two important ways:
1. Where's the evidence that BW uses rotations to determine dps balance, let alone the rotations that you created for this purpose? PLUS that it doesn't take other classes DPS into acct when it does?
2. You stated above that you don't know why they took away WP dmg in the beta.

With the above two in mind I am completely unconvinced that your argument has any merit, because the rotation-based analysis would not provide reason to remove WP from melee, if DblStrikes' max damage was 'always lower than the next highest abilities' min damage' and had no impact on the rotations' DPS output. You said,
Quote:
IF IT DOES NOT RAISE THE POTENTIAL MAX DAMAGE OR PEAK ROTATIONS IT IS NOT A BALANCE FACTOR BY LOGIC
..Then why would this method provide BW reason to remove WP dmg from melee? Either BW made a mistake and removed it by accident late in the beta, or there's a problem with your logic. I claim the latter.
The result of this is that it invalidates your rotation-based approach to this problem.

I suspect that comparing DPS between classes and your rotation-based approach both have value but I can't get my head around why you're getting so personal and upset about it. The fact that you claim to have 'put more work in' by producing unfounded calculations is... well, I'm ignoring it. As it stands, my belief that BW would compare DPS outputs between classes when balancing makes more sense than analysis of rotations and max damage potential therein. Ultimately they would still have to compare it to other classes at some point.

I said before, take some time to figure out the more obvious failures in your approach and we'll continue another day - when you're calmer!

P.S. your definition of what's 'useful' in terms of DBLStrike at higher levels is completely subjective.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

maestruljedi's Avatar


maestruljedi
11.21.2012 , 10:48 AM | #87
You're all making the wrong argument. Sage/Sorc is the only AC that doesn't get an "autoattack" that scales with their gear. A merc healer gets it. A scoundrel healer gets it. A tanking vanguard gets it. Everybody gets it. Sages should get it too -- be it melee or ranged. That is balance.

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
11.22.2012 , 09:23 AM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
BW balanced sages melee dmg output by removing WP bonus dmg.
Yooga, they are not balanced it, they bane it.

And I don't see the point why you arguing with Aital? What I can see, that Aital put some effort to show up with real numbers what are absolutely follows the game mechanics logic to substantiate his claim.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.23.2012 , 03:25 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
And I don't see the point why you arguing with Aital? What I can see, that Aital put some effort to show up with real numbers what are absolutely follows the game mechanics logic to substantiate his claim.
I know, but as I said above, his calcs can't give a reason for BW to remove WP dmg. Just because the calcs are accurate doesn't mean thay're correct.

Quote:
IF IT DOES NOT RAISE THE POTENTIAL MAX DAMAGE OR PEAK ROTATIONS IT IS NOT A BALANCE FACTOR BY LOGIC
Quote:
The rotation-based analysis would not provide reason to remove WP from melee, if DblStrikes' max damage was 'always lower than the next highest abilities' min damage' and had no impact on the rotations' DPS output.
Quote:
The result of this is that it invalidates your rotation-based approach to this problem
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
11.25.2012 , 05:39 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
I know, but as I said above, his calcs can't give a reason for BW to remove WP dmg. Just because the calcs are accurate doesn't mean thay're correct.
IMO the reason was to make classic mmo class for the public (in an old school style) , so pure caster.
And it was not about balance.
But some of us don't like it this way , ) The question is, do BW listen to us and makes some steps to fix it or this concept of there is set in stone.

By the way, I made a vid, last night about my low lvl Sagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYlsihsd5yQ&feature=plcp (I have a lvl 50 as well"Chlorianhost", just wanted to roll the quests again , )) Its a one night adventure in Beslasis (footage made by 4 hours game play)
Here you can see, that I use "double strike" in 1:27 but it has no meaning, I did this just for the animation : p
But if you take a look to my fight at 5:13, then it will be clear that when the situation is keen, the melee buff needed even if I wanna use it just for the animation , ) If in that fight (starts at (5:13) I would use just one double strike for fun and lost that 2 sec with it, I fail. So I can't even use it for the animation (RP)