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List of pointless talents in the Merc Trees

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
List of pointless talents in the Merc Trees

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
11.08.2012 , 10:44 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
That would be ridiculously overpowered versus stealth classes. Even as a Merc, not a chance.
No. Powertechs have a talent in the Shieldtech (tank) tree that roots stealthers exposed by Stealth Scan.

Granted, it's not spammable as the OP suggests.

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
11.09.2012 , 02:36 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
No. Powertechs have a talent in the Shieldtech (tank) tree that roots stealthers exposed by Stealth Scan.

Granted, it's not spammable as the OP suggests.
Well. My reaction was largely to it being spammable.

And, it is possible to have heat problems in endgame raids as Arsenal. It's happened to me on occasion. Depends on luck, procs, timing of mechanics, etc. But when things go right you shouldn't.

maestruljedi's Avatar


maestruljedi
11.20.2012 , 09:36 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by bahdasz View Post
I don't like your suggestion for Degauss because of Pyro mechanics. Fully talented a pyro can have shields up over half the time in a heavy fight due to the cooldown reduction when taking damage. That's just too much defense against what is a major skill for many profs.
You mean, the same way a Sniper can be in cover for half the fight and be immune to pulls and charges ? Say it isn't so !

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
11.20.2012 , 05:32 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by drob View Post
i have to disagree with power overrides it is extremely useful in heat management. and having it up more often is a huge benefit. it is only useful if you are over 40 heat however. but once you hit that hit thermal sensor override and your fusion missile and you are good to go. heat is back down and you can continue with your normal rotation
I think you are talking about Power Surge which we all love. The OP is talking about a skill that reduces cooldown on Concussion Missile and Thermal Override or something. Pretty worthless.
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroecon View Post
I actually use Flamethrower in PvP matches. Go figure....

PowerShot.....now THAT is a worthless ability. Haven't used that in a PvP match in over a week.
Flamethrower is definitely worthless. Sometimes I use it for fun (like once a month) or just to make people say W-T-F?

But I completely disagree on Power Shots. A Merc Pyro falls back on Power Shots when their full rotation is on cooldown and they are not being Focused and can stand still.

Granted, this is semi-rare but when you are well geared, everything hits hard. Including this 1.5s spammable attack. Once you get to the point where you need to fire Power Shots, your only other option is Rapid Shots which will do like half the damage.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
11.20.2012 , 09:40 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
But I completely disagree on Power Shots. A Merc Pyro falls back on Power Shots when their full rotation is on cooldown and they are not being Focused and can stand still.

Granted, this is semi-rare but when you are well geared, everything hits hard. Including this 1.5s spammable attack. Once you get to the point where you need to fire Power Shots, your only other option is Rapid Shots which will do like half the damage.
Rapid Shots do more damage than Power Shot. The belief that PS is your filler attack is a fallacy I see from a lot of Merc dps. This comes from the fact that most Merc dps are PvE oriented. There PS is your filler. But not in PvP. Unlike in PvE, you need to account for the reality that only about 40-60% of your PS attempts will complete to do advantageous damage to your target. The rest of the time, the target moves out of range/LoS, is killed by someone else, is cc'ed by someone else, you get interrupted, etc. Using PS in PvP is an incredibly inefficient heat/actual damage strategy. In contrast using RapidShot towards the front end of your rotation is incredibly efficient from a heal/damage ratio perspective because of CGC. If you are properly using RapidShot once every 6 seconds, it actually becomes your second most powerful attack after TD - even more powerful than RailShot (I am not counting FM since that isn't generally part of a rotation sequence).

I've said this before, but of all the matches where I have scored 700+k or 800+k, I don't think I have ever used PowerShot. Not once. Way too busy in those kinds of matches to spend 1.5 sec on something that half the time fails to even fire.

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
11.21.2012 , 12:57 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Rapid Shots do more damage than Power Shot. The belief that PS is your filler attack is a fallacy I see from a lot of Merc dps. This comes from the fact that most Merc dps are PvE oriented. There PS is your filler. But not in PvP. Unlike in PvE, you need to account for the reality that only about 40-60% of your PS attempts will complete to do advantageous damage to your target. The rest of the time, the target moves out of range/LoS, is killed by someone else, is cc'ed by someone else, you get interrupted, etc. Using PS in PvP is an incredibly inefficient heat/actual damage strategy. In contrast using RapidShot towards the front end of your rotation is incredibly efficient from a heal/damage ratio perspective because of CGC. If you are properly using RapidShot once every 6 seconds, it actually becomes your second most powerful attack after TD - even more powerful than RailShot (I am not counting FM since that isn't generally part of a rotation sequence).

I've said this before, but of all the matches where I have scored 700+k or 800+k, I don't think I have ever used PowerShot. Not once. Way too busy in those kinds of matches to spend 1.5 sec on something that half the time fails to even fire.
Its also a fallacy to assume everyone screws up on Power Shots 40-60% of the time. I find my own Power Shots tear into people. If all your other attacks are on cooldown, you can't really help burst anyone down with Rapid Shots. But if the situation is right, you can chain cast Power Shots for a huge amount of damage.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
11.21.2012 , 02:39 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBloodloss View Post
Its also a fallacy to assume everyone screws up on Power Shots 40-60% of the time.
The only time you will regularly get PowerShot to land is if the target is a) a bad b) engaged by 3+ other teammates and can't do anything about your grotesque cast motion or c) is stunned and can't do anything about your grotesque cast motion.

In the case of a), you don't need PowerShot to defeat this enemy. Would rather use RapidShots frankly and get to zero heat for the next enemy. In the case of b) see a). Which leaves c) as the only rational time to use PowerShot. And c) applies only if Unload is on CD. Only if IM hasn't been applied. Only if CGC was applied in the last 2 GCDs. Only if you aren't at close range where you can use Rocket Punch. Only if you don't have the heat availability to use Fusion Missile. And only if no other enemies are nearby and able to interrupt you. This cumulatively happens....not too often.

The big picture consideration here is that there simply isn't a need to use PS because your rotation is full without it. Let's go over some numbers:

IM - used once per 18 seconds, or occupies 1.5 out of every 18 seconds, or 8.33% of your time (actually an underestimate given enemy death and cleanse rates)
TD - once per 15 seconds or 10% of your time.
RapidShots - once per 6 seconds or 25% of your time.
RailShot - approx once every 9 seconds or 16.66% of your time
Unload - 3 out of every 15 seconds, or 20% of your time
ExplosiveDart - once per 15 seconds or 10% of your time
RocketPunch - once every 9 seconds or 16.66% of your time

No rational person would choose to use PowerShot over any of those listed ablities. And those arleady add up to over 100%. Now add in the amount of time you are stunned, relocating, applying stuns, using Jet Boost, FM, etc and it should be clear that any use of PowerShot is displacing a far better use of your abilities. PowerShot - if you are using it in PvP, you are doing it wrong.

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
11.22.2012 , 01:04 AM | #18
Isn't the point of using Power Shot to proc your Rail Shot? How is that a waste if you get that many more Rail Shots?

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
11.22.2012 , 08:55 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
Isn't the point of using Power Shot to proc your Rail Shot? How is that a waste if you get that many more Rail Shots?
The question is how many more Rail Shots do you actually get and what are they worth? I think you will be surprised by the answer....

First of all, there is an extremely narrow window of opportunity to use PowerShot effectively. You shouldn't just use it IF you see a stationary enemy who isn't paying attention to you. Since the main benefit of PowerShot is the possibility of a RailShot proc, you generally won't use PowerShot for a period of 6 seconds after using Unload. And then correspondingly it is almost pointless to use PowerShot if you used Unload 12 or more seconds ago, since your RailShot will be off CD anyway in two GCDs - which is less time on average than it would be to proc RailShot via PowerShot. So at best in a rotation sequence of 18-20 seconds, there might be a window of 6 seconds where PowerShot, even if it connects, makes sense to use. Right from the start the very rare circumstances when you can use Powershot just became even more rare.

And let's look at what happens if you do choose to use PowerShot. It takes an average of 2.22 casts of PowerShot in order to proc RailShot. Then you take your RailShot. Those 3.22 additional actions must displace 3.22 other actions in your rotation, which as shown above is already full. So you are not getting a "free" RailShot. Instead you are getting an additional RailShot at the cost of displacing an ability like ExplosiveDart or RocketPunch. And there is the additional cost of displacing 2.22 other actions for PowerShots that as noted above will fail to connect at a disturbingly regular pace. If there is even a 10% chance per PowerShot that it will not connect, the venture (using PS to proc RS) will generate a net negative impact on your damage output.

And that is the kicker. IF you spot a enemy who won't interrupt you, IF that target won't break LoS, IF that target won't get killed shortly or cc'ed shortly, IF you spy that target in that key 6 second window in your 18-20 second rotation sequence, IF you can afford to self root yourself and IF there is only a 5% chance another enemy will interrupt your 2-3 consecutive PowerShot casts, then and only then will you approximately break even on damage done. Doh. There's a reason why in all of my 700k and 800k damage matches, I've used PowerShot a total of.....ZERO times.

So Muzzle Fluting? Worthless for a Merc Pyro. Would rather have a point in Custom Enviro Suit. Which I do.