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Advice needed for EC HM

Naldash's Avatar


Naldash
11.19.2012 , 01:02 PM | #1
My guild is having issues with EC HM. Most likely due to the fact that we only raid on weekends but it has really turned into a brick wall for us. We have not attempted TFB HM but all other ops are absolutely no problem for us including EC SM pre nerf.

We have defeated Zorn and Toth twice recently and are having trouble with them again probably due to over dps since we are seeing weird stuff like Toth jumping to Zorn just before the red circle phase ends.

The 2 times we faced FB and SC it was disheartening to say the least. I am a shadow tank and I find that threat is being ripped away from me after double destruction. Most likely due to high dps again. We are having trouble making it the shields quickly enough as well. FYI we use the tank switch method of dealing with the incinerate armor.

I know we just need to learn the timing of things better and sharpen our skill but any tips that might help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
"I Love hitmen. No matter how much you hurt them you never feel bad" Sin City

Donalj's Avatar


Donalj
11.19.2012 , 01:24 PM | #2
As a tank you should save your AoE taunt for right after double destruction, this means you will have enough aggro and no-one will get hit with the cleave ( which would insta kill the soakers)
Donal - Xarea - Pasta - Wotsit - Vebbeg - Potential - Greengiant
Dólan - Hurrimarobot

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
11.19.2012 , 02:03 PM | #3
That stormcaller tank give a lot of tanks issues, so don't feel as if your the only one. one thing that'd make your life easier is to make sure you have both the DPS on SC guarded. Second as an assassin, you should have an easier time than the other tanks you do generate more threat than juggys or powertech's. DO NOT use your taunt to start(been noticing this from a lot of tanks as of late) go in get your 3 stacks built up hit your overcharged saber and recklessness followed by force lighting then single taunt. At this point the threat you built along with what ever the dps has done it should put you far enough up the board that you shouldn't lose it again for the rest of the fight. To be extra sure after swinging the turret over for the dps to take DD hit your AoE taunt. At this point you should be good for the rest of the fight. Throw in taunts from time to time (you can see the turret jerk towards the dps if your starting to lose it)

Atwin's Avatar


Atwin
11.19.2012 , 05:00 PM | #4
As a Tanksin I will share what my guild does for HM EC on the tanks. I hope that it helps.

I tank Firebrand - we put the other tank we've picked up on Stormcaller. We do this because as a Tanksin I can solo tank Firebrand w/o help from the other tank. No taunt needed. This in turn allows the Stormcaller tank to focus fully on his tank using all his taunts a what not to hold agro.

By rotating CD's I can handle Firebrand quite easily. For the first Incinerate Armour I will Force Cloak, this cancels Firebrands cast and it will start recasting on a DPS. As the cast bar is going I will taunt and take back agro. About 1 minute later we see another Incinerate Armor. For this one I pop Deflection + Armor Adrenal along w/ Dark ward. I have never died at most I will take 1 hit during this phase. Force Cloak will be up by the next incinerate armor.

As a bonus if you have very good DPS this method works even better because soon after incinerate armor, if enough damage is done, you will be pushed into a Defensive Systems phase with taking no more then 1,2 hits from Firebrand.

Best of luck w/ progressing...

I have talked to some people and this method does not work with their group composition but as I said - this works very well for us.

murshawursha's Avatar


murshawursha
11.19.2012 , 06:36 PM | #5
One thing that may or may not help as a sin tank: As you're running up to Stormcaller to start the fight, hit your Force Pull. Raid bosses may be immune to the movement effect, but it still serves to generate a nice threat buffer to start the fight.

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
11.19.2012 , 09:34 PM | #6
For T&Z:

If your DPS is high enough, the tank moving from Toth to Zorn may still have a few seconds of fearful. You need to check for this, and if you have it, do not hit Zorn. You can (and should) still taunt though until it falls off. Your DPS on Zorn should also use their threat dumps at this point.

One thing I see in PuGs frequently is the ranged DPS and healer running around non-stop for red circles. This is not necessary....just wait till a circle comes, and move to the left or right. Once the spike pops up, you can move back into the middle of it and always drop your circles in a predictable spot.

Healers need to prioritize healing on the tanks during red circles, as there will frequently be a jump immediately after this, and the tanks must survive. The DPS/heals can be healed up after the swap occurs and the tanks are stabilized.

Avoid getting T&Z more than about 5% apart, or the mechanics get weird. A DPS may need to switch between them to keep them even. Mox can also help you balance your DPS.

For FB&SC:

I believe SC is untauntable during the DD cast, so save a taunt to use immediately after DD finishes. Guard both DPS on SC (for threat reduction) and ask them to use their threat dumps at each DD. The trickiest part will be what to do if the SC tank is still dropping off DD when incinerate armor is cast. In this case, our FB tank just waits a few seconds before swapping, but you may have to see what works for your group.

Also SC DPS need to be very careful about not getting to close to the front of the tank. His damage comes out in a cone from the center pivot point, NOT from the end of the turrets.

The shields/adds will first show up on the minimap a few seconds before they land, so everyone should check that when they hear defensive systems being activated to know which way to run. And, personal choice, but I don't wait for the knockback to start moving toward the shields.

With tank swaps, healing on FB is pretty trivial, as long as the DPS stay out of his frontal AoE, so that healer should be on the ground attracting lighting spheres and yellow circles. This seems obvious, but I've seen at least one group try to put both healers on the ground.

In both fights, communication is key. We generally have only the tanks speaking in voice chat, calling out percentages (on T&Z, 91%, 81%, 71%, etc...) and mechanics (DD, incinerate, defensive, etc).

snowmon's Avatar


snowmon
11.20.2012 , 02:59 AM | #7
pro tip for getting to the shields quicker:

let the knock back knock u into it just point your back to the shield and wait for the knock back, simples.
lvl 55 PT DPS, ToFN Server

Pyrinoos's Avatar


Pyrinoos
11.20.2012 , 09:40 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Atwin View Post
As a Tanksin I will share what my guild does for HM EC on the tanks. I hope that it helps.

I tank Firebrand - we put the other tank we've picked up on Stormcaller. We do this because as a Tanksin I can solo tank Firebrand w/o help from the other tank. No taunt needed. This in turn allows the Stormcaller tank to focus fully on his tank using all his taunts a what not to hold agro.

By rotating CD's I can handle Firebrand quite easily. For the first Incinerate Armour I will Force Cloak, this cancels Firebrands cast and it will start recasting on a DPS. As the cast bar is going I will taunt and take back agro. About 1 minute later we see another Incinerate Armor. For this one I pop Deflection + Armor Adrenal along w/ Dark ward. I have never died at most I will take 1 hit during this phase. Force Cloak will be up by the next incinerate armor.

As a bonus if you have very good DPS this method works even better because soon after incinerate armor, if enough damage is done, you will be pushed into a Defensive Systems phase with taking no more then 1,2 hits from Firebrand.

Best of luck w/ progressing...

I have talked to some people and this method does not work with their group composition but as I said - this works very well for us.
you can force shroud thru it too, although the tank swap method works better in my opinion.
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Elyssandra's Avatar


Elyssandra
11.20.2012 , 03:21 PM | #9
Hmmm... have you considered collaborating with someone or a team that had EC HM on farm?

You can either drop one member of your raid for the caller of such a group just for one raid - you'll probably see and hear their tactics and he/ she may have some thoughts/ observations to provide to you.
Or you could do a 16 man by teaming up with such a group - your group may get a significant morale boost by killing T & Z on 16 man AND for a bonus they'll feel T&Z is so much easier next time they try on 8 man

Also are your sents dumping threat after each dd soak on the tank fight? It may help to have different people watching out for different things to call out to the group as well. For example, when making it to the shields - the shields show up on the minimap at the bottom a bit before you need to move into them. Assign one person from each group to watch and call out where the shield is going to be so their team can start moving in the right direction