Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Signs that you're good or bad at your role


mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.18.2012 , 03:24 PM | #31
Healer and clicker, I tried the other way, but I am just better as a clicker. Now on dps, I do use key binds, but healing to me is easier and faster as a clicker.
Quote: Originally Posted by Khayleth View Post
The only major pet peeve that marks a bad player is during or after a wipe and some idiot asks "what happened?" Pay attention to what's going on around you, the answer to that question is usually pretty obvious.
Wow I am a bad player thenÖ We donít wipe too often, but if someone in the group dies I do ask what happen, since it was my responsibility to keep them alive. I want to know if I missed something that will make me a better healer the next time through. If I wasnít at fault then at least the person explaining it is talking to me and hopefully the person that made the mistake is listening/reading and will correct that error next time. I have seen people go from around 100% health to zero, so I want to know what I can do to make myself better prepared to handle that kind of damage. If wanting to always get better and not having the luxury of running around the instance sightseeing make me a bad player, then I am the worse. I pay attention to where I am standing and make sure I am not in AoEs, but I canít see what happening to the entire group every moment and still be in range of everyone and watching health bars too.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
Keybinding core abilities is faster than clicking, regardless of whether it's "necessary" or not.
Caught me, I do use keybind on a few abilities with my healer.

Khayleth's Avatar


Khayleth
11.19.2012 , 04:49 AM | #32
Quote:
I want to know if I missed something that will make me a better healer the next time through. If I wasnít at fault then at least the person explaining it is talking to me and hopefully the person that made the mistake is listening/reading and will correct that error next time. I have seen people go from around 100% health to zero, so I want to know what I can do to make myself better prepared to handle that kind of damage.
For starters if someone goes from 100% to 0% it means they screwed up, not you.

That being said, it's not about sightseeing (I pride myself on my raidwide situational awareness, I keep an eye on everything around me while tanking, constantly moving my camera while hitting my keys and binds) so much as once you know the mechanics, someone dying or a wipe can easily be discerned.

I.E. During this phase if you don't do X you die, someone dies during that phase, obviously they didn't do X and died. I can forgive a person if they never did it before, but after one wipe you shouldn't be making the same mistakes and should be able to recognize why someone dies during a specific phase near instantly.
Raid progression no one cares about. Unimpressive quote or one liner. Uninteresting guild name. List of characters with their level and class symbol.

Ms_Sunlight's Avatar


Ms_Sunlight
11.19.2012 , 06:37 AM | #33
This whole hating on clickers thing is absurd. I've chatted about this to guildies. Most of us use a combination of keybinds and clicks. Having too many things bound is as problematic as doing absolutely everything with the mouse.

That said, the first thing I do on a new toon is unbind keyboard turning and map A and D to strafe instead. Q and E become my interrupt and CC breaker, when i get them.

In the end, if someone's getting the job done, where's the problem?
Carilie - Scoundrel // Dastelen - Shadow // Dras'yra - Sniper // Elonie - Sorcerer // Undali - Powertech
Server: The Red Eclipse // Guild: The Onyx Guard / The Orbital Guard

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.19.2012 , 10:09 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Khayleth View Post
That being said, it's not about sightseeing (I pride myself on my raidwide situational awareness, I keep an eye on everything around me while tanking, constantly moving my camera while hitting my keys and binds) so much as once you know the mechanics, someone dying or a wipe can easily be discerned.
no clue about tanks, don't play one. However as a dps I can pretty much tell you what everyone is doing in the fight. However as a healer my awareness ends at everyones health bars and making sure I stay out of AoEs. I will park myself near something CC'ed so I can yell out if it breaks, but my job is keeping people on their feet.

It is one of the reasons I like to DPS (and one day tank these fights too), to completely understand these fights I have found dps has helped my role as a healer and vise versa. I know healing has made my mDPS better and is the reason my guild trust me on a alt mDPS on fights like NIM KP on Jarg. I know how to help out the healers by getting out of AoEs, using defensive cooldowns and interupts.

Still as a healer I am going to ask what happened when someone dies even when I know it was because they were over stacked or standing in spit. It is a nicer way of reinterating the problem than saying get out of the spit stupid. If that makes me a bad healer, then don't team up with me or give me the boot.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
11.19.2012 , 11:07 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by DarknessInLight View Post
I'm not sure I totally agree with everything you mentioned about the Tank spec.

First off, Soa is a bad example to determine if someone is a bad tank. The camera angle in game isnt that great for trying to pick up the pillars that appear during the fight, so it can be difficult for a Tank to maneuver Soa into position under the spinning pillar.

I also disagree on the Holding Aggro piece. Some tanks, and Guardian Tanks in particular, from time to time have difficulty holding Aggro on Mobs. Not really sure why this is, cause most other Tank specs have little to no trouble holding them. I didn't believe this until my Guardian had similar issues. Now I just drive my Threat up and that usually takes care of that problem.

This of course leads in to holding Aggro on Bosses, which Guardians also have issues with. The use of Taunt and Challenging Call are almost necessary to acquire or maintain Aggro for most of the fight. With Guardians, the DPS might want to be careful what they use during the fight because raising their Threat level can pull the Mobs and/or Boss off of the Guardian Tank, and if that Tank is waiting for Cooldown on Taunt or Challenging Call, that DPS could be in BIG trouble.

I can't speak to experience on other Tanks, but the Guardian is a unique specimen.
Agree about the dang camera with Soa. Grrrr.

Guardians just don't have much AoE threat abilities. We have our aoe taunt, force sweep, and cone attack, all of which generate extra threat, and Guardian Slash, which not many people take and only does aoe situationally. I feel like I do a pretty good job with the tools I have - I can generally hold a decent pack of mobs. But some players think if a single strong is not attacking the tank or goes for the healer, it's the tank's fault. Well, that guy was probably standing off to the side a little and should have been cc'ed or burned by dps as a priority target.

Guardians should have absolutely no problem holding boss aggro. There is no excuse here. If your group is competent and giving you 3 seconds to establish threat, and using their aggro dump after their initial burst, you should not lose threat. If you are outgeared by dps, you may lose it once, and only once, at the beginning. After you taunt back, it shouldn't happen again.
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

LadyTributary's Avatar


LadyTributary
11.19.2012 , 02:45 PM | #36
#1 sign that you are bad: you are more useful to the group dead than alive.

The case that established this level of bad was a tank on SM Kephess the Undying, who managed to run through the raid, the middle of the raid, with the lightning debuff every single time. Not just once, but every time. And if he was chosen for Kephess's cone attack, he'd manage to share the damage across as wide a swath as possible. It was easier to heal the group when he was dead because he was no longer getting the DPS hurt.

Other examples include the assassin DPS who kept knocking the mobs out of the range of the orbital strike that a sniper had put down. Punting mobs out of a hard-hitting AoE with a weak knockback gets people killed.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
11.19.2012 , 03:09 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkanzues View Post
I don't use my Aggro-drop, I guess that makes me a bad DPS.

(Sarcasm, due to me being Vanguard DPS.)
Not sure if I follow the sarcasm. When I raid with my Commando dps, if I fail to use my aggro dump, I will sometimes pull off the tank. If I use my aggro dump regularly, this doesn't happen.

Do you not do enough dps to pull off of the tank? Do you wait longer than 5 seconds after the tank to begin a fight? Do you not use adrenals during burst phases?

The idea behind using your aggro dump is that it allows you to be less careful about bursting your dps as high as you possibly can without fear of out-threating the tank. This is a Good Thing(tm)

LadyTributary's Avatar


LadyTributary
11.19.2012 , 03:22 PM | #38
Vanguards/Powertechs have no threat dump ability.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
11.19.2012 , 04:26 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyTributary View Post
Vanguards/Powertechs have no threat dump ability.
D'oh. I guess I need to get my Powertech past level 11 and I would have found that out ...

Slurmez's Avatar


Slurmez
11.19.2012 , 08:31 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
Thanks for the comments all. I was admittedly being provocative when I said that not key binding makes you a bad player. Being a clicker doesn't necessarily make you a bad player, per se, but ceteris paribus, a key binder is better than a clicker.

Sydexlic has eloquently demonstrated why key binding is the superior method of game play. I will add one additional argument.

1: Situational awareness is absolutely crucial for effective PvE gameplay. Raid bosses will have multiple mechanics occurring simultaneously during a fight. A player who is not sufficiently situationally aware will be a liability to the group.

2: Frequent camera rotation and repositioning is required in order to situationally aware.

3: Using the mouse to move the camera is faster and far more effective than using the keyboard..

4: It is not feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and click on the quickbar simultaneously.

5: It is feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and use the key bound quickbar simultaneously.

6: A player who can actively reposition the camera to maintain situational awareness while simultaneously attending to their role-specific duties will be more effective than a player who is not able to do both.

7: Therefore, ceteris paribus, a key binder is a more effective player than a clicker.

#4 might be false, but I am skeptical.
1 - nothing to do with clicking or not

2 - nothing to do with clicking or not

3 - yes

4 - is not true

5 - not a keybinder only ability

6 - nothing to do with clicking or not

7 - using latin doesnt change the fact that people are not equal or the same ergo your points are moot unless you are clearly stipulating that binders are superior simply by virtue of being a binder, or to put it in more personal terms do you claim to be a better player than I am? To clarify, I would never claim to be a good player because the concept seems asinine. however I have cleared every operation in the game on a vengeance juggernaut with the exception of NM EC and I dont believe anyone has carried me.

As I stated earlier, it seems to me, given the smaller population of clickers, that a much higher percentage of sucky players would be binders.

Was funny, today on mumble someone I have played with for a long asked me if I was a clicker as he could hear me clicking while talking during a boss fight.