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Let the Jedi use his light saber

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular
Let the Jedi use his light saber

Aital's Avatar


Aital
11.19.2012 , 01:05 PM | #61
Maybe it's too long of a post for most to read, but I did list the exact numbers for my character for DPS at end gear. It was fine.

In fact I noted that to even make it viable you would need Forcepower added as well. And then it would just be viable with my hybrid for close ranged use. Mind you if you did straight balance or Telekinetics it would be lower than any other ability in the tree with willpower and forcepower.

NathanM's Avatar


NathanM
11.19.2012 , 04:39 PM | #62
Some people should pay more xp into spelling and grammar...

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.19.2012 , 06:54 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
If they changed their rotations to include melee, they'd still do less damage and be gimping themselves.
The premise is that if BW adds WP damage to melee AND people don't change their rotations, then you'll see a damage increase.

If people do change their rotations as a result of added melee damage then you agree that there would be a reason to do so due to increased damage which would, of course, be relfected in BW's damage analysis.

If you can't see a reason for them to change their rotations AFTER WP is added to melee, then you should ask yourself why you're for the idea of adding WP to melee for sages.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
11.20.2012 , 12:41 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
The premise is that if BW adds WP damage to melee AND people don't change their rotations, then you'll see a damage increase.

If people do change their rotations as a result of added melee damage then you agree that there would be a reason to do so due to increased damage which would, of course, be relfected in BW's damage analysis.

If you can't see a reason for them to change their rotations AFTER WP is added to melee, then you should ask yourself why you're for the idea of adding WP to melee for sages.
Yooga, its a game, an mmorpg. Our suggestion absolutely don't hurts the balance what was set up for classes, but serves a lot the "game play" and the "rpg" part (one of the main reasons way we are playing an mmorpg , ))
And I think you are the person here who "should ask yourself" in what way it would hurt your game play experience? Please explain this.
From the other hand, its simply fair to ad it, till all classes use there main attribute for both of there damage table.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.20.2012 , 03:47 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
And I think you are the person here who "should ask yourself" in what way it would hurt your game play experience? Please explain this.
From the other hand, its simply fair to ad it, till all classes use there main attribute for both of there damage table.
For some reason, BW removed WP damage from melee in beta, to balance the class. If they add melee damage back it could affect the balance; the class has already suffered major nerfs and has only just received some love in the form of Egress, self-heal and bubblestun (note: no DPS buffing).

It's incorrect to say that it's 'fair to add the WP damage back' because BW removed it for balance reasons. What's fair is that we don't do WP damage in melee.

My reason for not wanting WP melee damage is that if BW actually approves such a minor change and considers it a buff to our class, they might overlook other far more important buffs as a result, because sage DPS will go up a percentage point or two which might strain the boundaries of what they've defined as acceptable DPS ranges for sages.

Now there's a huge outcry over bubblestun and BW may change how it works... what will we get in return? I certainly don't want a weak melee buff from the deal!
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
11.20.2012 , 05:34 AM | #66
Where is the evidence that Bioware removed it for balance reasons in the first place? I've never seen that.

The only thing I have seen is evidence that if put back in, it wouldn't affect balance at all, as Double Strike would still be an inferior option to anything else in a TK sage or Balance sage's rotation.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.20.2012 , 07:25 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
Where is the evidence that Bioware removed it for balance reasons in the first place? I've never seen that.

The only thing I have seen is evidence that if put back in, it wouldn't affect balance at all, as Double Strike would still be an inferior option to anything else in a TK sage or Balance sage's rotation.
If that's the best you can do, I'll direct you toward this thread where you can ferret out arguments against all the posts in there:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=78574

As for the Beta: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=168375

Now... please just stop wasting my time. I won't respond further than I already have on the matter unless you've read and absorbed both of the above links.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
11.20.2012 , 01:27 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
If that's the best you can do, I'll direct you toward this thread where you can ferret out arguments against all the posts in there:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=78574

As for the Beta: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=168375

Now... please just stop wasting my time. I won't respond further than I already have on the matter unless you've read and absorbed both of the above links.
I read both threads. There is no dev quote, only mentions of what a dev said with no link, and the same arguments seen in this thread. But thanks for wasting my time

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
11.20.2012 , 01:53 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
For some reason, BW removed WP damage from melee in beta, to balance the class. If they add melee damage back it could affect the balance; the class has already suffered major nerfs and has only just received some love in the form of Egress, self-heal and bubblestun (note: no DPS buffing).

It's incorrect to say that it's 'fair to add the WP damage back' because BW removed it for balance reasons. What's fair is that we don't do WP damage in melee.

My reason for not wanting WP melee damage is that if BW actually approves such a minor change and considers it a buff to our class, they might overlook other far more important buffs as a result, because sage DPS will go up a percentage point or two which might strain the boundaries of what they've defined as acceptable DPS ranges for sages.

Now there's a huge outcry over bubblestun and BW may change how it works... what will we get in return? I certainly don't want a weak melee buff from the deal!
I see your point now , ) But you can be sure, that if wp would go to weapon dmg bonus and some ppl would start to use it in there rotation, the logs what BW would get are on your side , )
By the way, if the community or even you starts a thread to upgrade Sage/Sorc's dmg out come, I support it!

Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
11.20.2012 , 04:43 PM | #70
Personally, I could care less. there are odd times that I wish i could just hit double strike instead of casting another spell, or waiting for the CD on project to come up. but I usually just DoT the mob and move on...he'll die very shortly from that. As long as it doesn't top ANY of our other primary skills...who cares?

although I find it very interesting that the OP states that its not about the damage...but the entire conversation has revolved around you guys breaking down...the damage. if it's not about the damage, then why do you even care how much it does? really....if it was all about using your lightsaber, then you can already USE IT. you have 2 very useable skills that you can spam all day long, and you get them at level one. So it really IS about the damage

On another note....I remember some conversations with beta players....apparently the Sage was originally brought up with the idea of being a melee/range hybrid, bur for some reason unknown to the beta tester at the time, they had dropped most of their melee abilities. I wouldn't be surprised if the decided to keep DS low damage to try and keep sage's to ranged attacks.

Edit: already beaten to the punch on the beta point but the point made via the beta comments still stands wade...they purposefully kept melee damage low on the sage for some reason. balance makes sense.