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Let the Jedi use his light saber

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Let the Jedi use his light saber

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
11.17.2012 , 05:13 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGusto View Post
I don't really see what the issue is here. If you wanted to use a lightsaber, you could have used a jedi knight. But you chose the force power type jedi. After that, you had another choice between sage, and shadow. Shadow uses both lightsaber and force. You simply choose the wrong AC for the type of play you would have liked. You chose the only 1 of the 4 types of jedi that doesn't use ls.

As much as I'd like to agree with you, i just can't. There is no way it could be done without re-balancing every class.
Just because you would still stay ranged, doesn't mean someone else couldn't find away to make it OP in pvp.
Kinda funny then that the conclusion of the Tython story line for a consular is the going to an ancient forge to make your lightsabre, as a hallmark weapon of a Jedi and let's not forget you start the game with a training sabre, and you pretty much have to whack things with it, since you have only a mere 1 or 2 force abilities. This implies you were training to use a lightsabre from level 1.

So no, I don't buy your argument in the least.

-Silver-'s Avatar


-Silver-
11.18.2012 , 07:33 AM | #52
I support this idea, and I play as a Shadow. The Lightsaber is so iconic, so powerful, and all Jedi are trained to use one with deadly accuracy, that it makes no sense for a Sage to ignore it. I always hate it when gameplay mechanics break immersion like this, and it's the reason I chose to play as a Shadow instead of a Sage.

However, I don't think this is an easy fix. Balancing classes in MMOs is a lot of hard work, constantly ongoing. You can't just raise one class's damage dealing potential and expect nothing to change, even if it is only improved melee damage for a ranged class. This would take a heck of a lot of work to balance accurately.

The other alternative (although equally prone to imbalancing PVP) is instead of a melee damage boost give the Sage some close-range escape skills that utilize the saber in the animations - hamstringing a close target to reduce their speed; a defensive riposte while leaping backwards 10-15 yards; a saber parry followed by a force push that knocks all nearby opponents backwards, etc.

That would keep the damage in check whilst giving them class appropriate skills that utilize the saber, but of course that makes it a lot harder for melee classes to get close enough to the Sage to deal damage. The key here is that these saber skills would actually be used by the Sage - whilst a basic damage buff to their basic saber attack would hardly ever be used, since their core damage still comes from force abilities, and so the Sage still never uses his saber.

Man, balancing MMO classes must be a really tough job.

TheLordMagnus's Avatar


TheLordMagnus
11.18.2012 , 07:51 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
Sage dmg output is probably right where BW wants it atm.

Perhaps they could change Force Stuns animation to something like Dispatch or Saber Throw, for example, instead.
what this guy said make the sorcc look like hes using his saber with tosses impales ect

on a side note pal was a master of both the force and the blade not just the force
and in close combat i use the saber for killing blows makes it feel like im using it
LVL 50 SORCC RDPS ACTIVE
LVL 30 JUG DMG ACTIVE
LvL 50 MARRA ACTIVE

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
11.18.2012 , 10:12 AM | #54
Half the people in this thread have no *********** clue what they're talking about, when they raise complaints about this unbalancing the game. The OP's suggestion wouldn't touch game balance in the slightest, all he's saying is have Willpower apply to Melee attacks, just like for example Strength applies to Force attacks for the Jedi Knight.

The only attacks buffed from this would be the basic Saber Strike and Double Strike, and neither one would ever be viable enough to actually use in a rotation. The only difference is you could throw them in while doing things like dailies without feeling stupid.

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
11.19.2012 , 03:13 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post

The only attacks buffed from this would be the basic Saber Strike and Double Strike, and neither one would ever be viable enough to actually use in a rotation. The only difference is you could throw them in while doing things like dailies without feeling stupid.
This.

But all idea is welcome in my eye, even if some of them would give a really though job for BW to balance it , )
It would bring a lot of fun for Sage/Sarc to let them have melee skills in there tree! Now days I see a bunch of posts in the general like " I skipped my Sage/Sorce, its way to boring to use that 2 buttons all the time..". Yes, it can be boring, and from the other side, Sage/Sorc is the most scriptable class at the moment - not good imo
But this are very sensitive questions, how to balance them, to make a so radical change in an AD class and would need a lot of support from the player base.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.19.2012 , 06:08 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
Half the people in this thread have no *********** clue what they're talking about,
You're one of them. You really want to give people more reason to nerf sages? If you add WP damage to melee attacks, when BW analyses their damage data over the last month there's a chance they'll see sage dmg increase by 1 or 2 percent. If that takes them outside their predefined range of what's balanced for sage damage, they'll nerf the class.

Just stop.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
11.19.2012 , 06:59 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
You're one of them. You really want to give people more reason to nerf sages? If you add WP damage to melee attacks, when BW analyses their damage data over the last month there's a chance they'll see sage dmg increase by 1 or 2 percent. If that takes them outside their predefined range of what's balanced for sage damage, they'll nerf the class.

Just stop.
Even with the asked change, with how the specs are now, it's likely that using melee abilities in a rotation instead of Force powers would make the DPS drop rather than increase it.

Increasing an ability doesn't means it will improve the class if this abilty is still worthless.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
11.19.2012 , 08:55 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
You're one of them. You really want to give people more reason to nerf sages? If you add WP damage to melee attacks, when BW analyses their damage data over the last month there's a chance they'll see sage dmg increase by 1 or 2 percent. If that takes them outside their predefined range of what's balanced for sage damage, they'll nerf the class.

Just stop.
Having willpower apply to Melee damage would not change ANYTHING to a DPS sage rotation, you'd still never use your melee attacks. Its also the only class restricted in this way, for example Scoundrel/Operative has Cunning apply to Ranged damage as well as Tech (but they're not ranged classes, oh NOES!). All it does is make their ranged attacks not pathetic when someone wants to mess around and use them doing dailies, they still aren't included in any serious DPS rotation for a Scoundrel or Operative, and its the same exact thing people are asking for, for Sages/Sorcs in this thread.

You just stop. And learn to read.

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.19.2012 , 09:20 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
You just stop. And learn to read.
Lol

The premise is that if BW adds WP damage to melee AND people don't change their rotations, then you'll see a damage increase.

If people do change their rotations as a result of added melee damage then you agree that there would be a reason to do so due to increased damage which would, of course, be relfected in BW's damage analysis.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
11.19.2012 , 10:59 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
Lol

The premise is that if BW adds WP damage to melee AND people don't change their rotations, then you'll see a damage increase.

If people do change their rotations as a result of added melee damage then you agree that there would be a reason to do so due to increased damage which would, of course, be relfected in BW's damage analysis.
If they changed their rotations to include melee, they'd still do less damage and be gimping themselves.

Again, you completely ignored my example. An operative gets a bonus to their ranged attacks from both Cunning and Aim, unlike a Sage, which only gets a melee bonus from Strength. So naturally, Snipe is overpowered for Operatives and they all use it in their rotation right?

No, actually no Operative that has half a clue how to play the class ever uses Snipe when they are seriously DPSing. What they do use it for is the rare occasion they find themselves needing cover at range and want to fire off an attack when there's nothing better to do (like in a warzone avoiding a knights charge), or for flavor when running dailies. Which is all people are asking for in this thread, for Sages.

I don't know if I could explain it any slower for you, if you still don't get it... I'm sorry.