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Consolidating Info on 16-man NiM Stormcaller and Firebrand

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Consolidating Info on 16-man NiM Stormcaller and Firebrand

Jinxblog's Avatar


Jinxblog
11.18.2012 , 12:22 AM | #1
My guild just spent 5 or so hours chewing on the tanks and brainstorming tactics and figuring out mechanics. I'm hoping to get some feedback, ideas, or help from other 16 man guilds with this fight.

Differences from 16-man HM:

Incinerate Armor: The tank with this debuff now takes 100% more damage from Firebrand. Previously, this move only made the tank's armor 0. We found that the tanks had to taunt and switch faster than normal to prevent the tank moving FROM Firebrand to be near death when he arrives at Stormcaller.

Double Destruction: People who get Single Destruction will now be one-shot if they take Double Destruction for a second time. We found it easy to just make the 2 people who get it first time to move toward the back of the tank so that they won't even get close to getting it a second time.

Targeted/The yellow beams: We found that the AoE range of this attack is bigger than the reticle will lead you to believe. The person needs to run away quite a bit after cleansing the debuff in order to not get 1 shot.

Defensive Systems: This gave us the biggest curve ball. In HM, both 8 and 16 groups, the tanks would do a push back in which we would usually use to get into shields faster (position yourself to get pushed almost into the shields). However, we experienced people taking fall damage and damage from hitting any walls from this pushback. Literally, the other healer and myself would - appear - to get 1 shot after crashing into a rocky wall or after landing. After making adjustments, we found that getting off the tanks immediately and moving away around 80% on the bosses, no one would take a ton of damage from the transition.

Trandoshans and Shield Phase: We actually never made it past this phase tonight. We are correctly dividing the raid and going to our assigned shields without any problems but between people being too slow to get there before a Mortar Volley strikes, the Trandoshans whittling away HP too much and keeping the tank kiting the spheres from dying, there's a lot of damage and dps might be a little lacking it seems. We are also correctly avoiding AoEs and refraining from killing the Trandoshan that will explode upon death until either he is the last one standing and the phase has just ended, or until a ranged DPS can pick him off when he's atop the boss.

Raid make up was:

Tanks
- Guardian (nearly full 63)
- Vanguard (mix of 61 and 63)

Firebrand side
DPS
- Commando x2 (we had 1 kiting the spears and yellow beam)
- Guardian
- Gunslinger x2

Healers
- Scoundrel (mixed 61 and few 63)
- Sage (mixed 61 and few 63)

Stormcaller side
DPS
- Gunslinger
- Sentinel
- Sage (who was kiting the spears and yellow beam)
- Shadow
- Vanguard

Healers
- Scoundrel (all 61)
- Sage (I'm in mostly 61 with a few 63s)

Thoughts on damage, healing and DPS:

Oh boy. What. A. Fight. Compared to the tanks, Toth and Zorn hit like *****es. Our tanks are way more geared than all the healers and most of the DPS and they are being really wailed on. Not only that, this fight tough on healers and DPS as well. We might be missing something on the shield phase, but it's really kicking us in the ***. The Trandoshans have a sizable amount of HP to get through in the short Mortar volley phase (35k each, x3 for front and back shields - only 2 in the middle one - in a 25 second phase).

After playing around with the positioning and jobs of the healers, we found that we had to abandon our HM tactics and have a DPS on each boss take care of the spears and the cleanse. The damage on the tanks was simply too much for our healers to juggle that job as well. Upon changing our strat, the healers had no problems with healing until the 80% mark.

Discuss~
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tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
11.18.2012 , 01:43 PM | #2
Yep, agree with the majority of your post. A few things:

1) Even in hard mode, taking 2 destructions is an insta-gib. NiM just leaves the 1st set around for longer.

2) Consider using CC on the adds, it may reduce some of your damage taken.

Good luck!
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Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
11.18.2012 , 01:54 PM | #3
I have done this fight on 8 man NIM, and have to say the KB from the tanks isnt that brutal and just a lil bit more damage then it was in HM. You shouldnt be flying into trees or walls though, not to sure if that is causing excessive damage or not, because i didnt have that issue.

On a sidenote i was wondering if someone could post how much HP they have on 16 man, for we can figure out how much dps is needed in 16 man compared to 8 man. As it stands i would like to think that 16 man should be a bit easier with the fact that if you get a second double destruction you have people already on the tank that can eat, and dont need to have dps switching tanks mid fight, or having to be very creative to avoid the second one completely.

LordKantner's Avatar


LordKantner
11.18.2012 , 07:49 PM | #4
Chaqen obviously has not done 16m before.....
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Donalj's Avatar


Donalj
11.19.2012 , 10:17 AM | #5
Both tanks have around 2.5 million HP. On our 16 man kill we had a few people doing over 2k DPS on the tanks and the majority was doing 1600 or more (I believe we averaged out at around 1700-1800 on the tanks, not including adds). We still hit enrage.
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GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
11.19.2012 , 10:29 AM | #6
Bear in mind I haven't done nightmare yet so it may not be possible there but...

Have you tried switching the shadow to firebrand? He can simply taunt firebrand during the double destruction, soak the incinerate, let the tank go on tanking firebrand as normal. Voila', no tank swap.
Works PERFECTLY in hard mode, we haven't been doing a tank swap there forever.

If that works, it would make everything much easier.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.19.2012 , 10:38 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Bear in mind I haven't done nightmare yet so it may not be possible there but...

Have you tried switching the shadow to firebrand? He can simply taunt firebrand during the double destruction, soak the incinerate, let the tank go on tanking firebrand as normal. Voila', no tank swap.
Works PERFECTLY in hard mode, we haven't been doing a tank swap there forever.

If that works, it would make everything much easier.
This does work on 8man nightmare. Can't confirm on 16man.

Also if you do this you prob want your vanguard on firebrand, as he's all mitigatable, vs storm caller who eats right thru VG/PT defenses. Guardians have better mitigation vs storm caller's elemental damage and cooldowns that work on that damage.
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
11.19.2012 , 10:48 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Bear in mind I haven't done nightmare yet so it may not be possible there but...

Have you tried switching the shadow to firebrand? He can simply taunt firebrand during the double destruction, soak the incinerate, let the tank go on tanking firebrand as normal. Voila', no tank swap.
Works PERFECTLY in hard mode, we haven't been doing a tank swap there forever.

If that works, it would make everything much easier.
I thought the same thing. They already have a Guardian dps on firebrand who can do it. Trivializes the incinerate armor mechanic.
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GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
11.19.2012 , 10:51 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
I thought the same thing. They already have a Guardian dps on firebrand who can do it. Trivializes the incinerate armor mechanic.
Yeah missed the dps guardian, that works as well. Though maybe the shadow can cleanse the incinerate with resilience? Not sure, but as long as they stay clear of the frontal cone it shouldn't matter anyway.

Donalj's Avatar


Donalj
11.19.2012 , 11:27 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Bear in mind I haven't done nightmare yet so it may not be possible there but...

Have you tried switching the shadow to firebrand? He can simply taunt firebrand during the double destruction, soak the incinerate, let the tank go on tanking firebrand as normal. Voila', no tank swap.
Works PERFECTLY in hard mode, we haven't been doing a tank swap there forever.

If that works, it would make everything much easier.
Yes, this works very well. Once the taunter gets the timing right it makes incinerate armor trivial. However if the taunter taunts too early or late it can wipe the group if the main tank gets incinerate or if the taunter can get a massive hit.
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