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Alas, Darth Gravus


Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.17.2012 , 06:41 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
Lock in one writer to a cheap, lengthy contract, and let them go to town. Like how every Warcraft book had to be Knaak gushing about his pet character.
I heard this was to be his last, I hope to god that is true, then I can finally have an interest in TOR novels, without wondering which character will get butchered next.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
11.17.2012 , 06:43 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
Lock in one writer to a cheap, lengthy contract, and let them go to town. Like how every Warcraft book had to be Knaak gushing about his pet character.

Even WOW got like 2-4 writers, Golden and Knaak wrote the most of them. Even Golden's WOW works are much weaker before the great SW novels(Thrawn Trilogy, RotS, Plagueis). However the quality of TOR novels are just horrible.

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.17.2012 , 06:56 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Even WOW got like 2-4 writers, Golden and Knaak wrote the most of them. Even Golden's WOW works are much weaker before the great SW novels(Thrawn Trilogy, RotS, Plagueis). However the quality of TOR novels are just horrible.
They branched out for WoW, but the old Warcraft books were just Knaak.

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
11.17.2012 , 07:04 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
The Exile was taken from the founder of the new Orthodox Jedi Order and saviour of everything in the galaxy with power enough to vanquish the entire Sith Triumvirate single-handedly into a padawan who can barely take Imperial Guards and has nothing on Revan's level, it's pathetic "My character is better than your's" writing, it dragged that entire book into the dirt for me.
Pretty much. Character aside, her accomplishments warrant her being more than a convenient means of dragging Revan back into the spotlight before spending the rest of her life being inept.

As far as Gravus goes, I haven't read the new book so can't really comment.

Emperor-Norton's Avatar


Emperor-Norton
11.17.2012 , 07:39 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
The Exile was taken from the founder of the new Orthodox Jedi Order and saviour of everything in the galaxy with power enough to vanquish the entire Sith Triumvirate single-handedly into a padawan who can barely take Imperial Guards and has nothing on Revan's level, it's pathetic "My character is better than your's" writing, it dragged that entire book into the dirt for me.

She did have a character in the game, a great character that was canonised and expanded upon by passages in other works, that was thrown out of the window itself.

And it doesn't matter which work you like more, that NEVER matters, all that has ever mattered is continuity and Drew managed to royally trash that by contradicting half the things in the second game and basically making out like the Sith Triumvirate were no real threat and the Republic and Jedi were fine and dandy.

An example would be Kreia stating that almost none of the Jedi were still left and that the Temple on Coruscant is empty, fastforward to the novel, she goes to the Temple and it's just as populated as it ever was, 'Barely one hundred Jedi remained after the Jedi Civil War...' there were probably more than that in the Jedi Temple alone.
I think that everyone who read the Revan Novel should be able to tell that Drew was definitely establishing that Revan > The Exile.

Wasn't what Kreia said about how many Jedi remained after the Jedi Purge (which occured after Revan had left for Nathema), and the scene with Revan in the Jedi Temple from before the Purge started? Though Drew did directly contradict what KotOR 2 said about there being a Hundred or so Jedi after the Jedi Civil War, and yet he says that over Ten Thousand are still there in the Revan Novel (once again, Before the Purge). Even though I though the idea that there would be only 100 left after KotOR didn't make sense. The Jedi would have totally collapsed as a Organization if their numbers got that low. Anywhere from 1,500 to 3,500 seemed more realistic.

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
11.17.2012 , 07:44 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor-Norton View Post
The Jedi would have totally collapsed as a Organization if their numbers got that low.
I thought that was the point.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.17.2012 , 07:52 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor-Norton View Post
I think that everyone who read the Revan Novel should be able to tell that Drew was definitely establishing that Revan > The Exile.
Which there was no real point to, it was entirely beyond the point to actually establish anything like that and it was a pretty blatant 'This isn't necessary but I'm going to do it cus revan is 1337' move.

Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor-Norton View Post
Wasn't what Kreia said about how many Jedi remained after the Jedi Purge (which occured after Revan had left for Nathema), and the scene with Revan in the Jedi Temple from before the Purge started? Though Drew did directly contradict what KotOR 2 said about there being a Hundred or so Jedi after the Jedi Civil War, and yet he says that over Ten Thousand are still there in the Revan Novel (once again, Before the Purge). Even though I though the idea that there would be only 100 left after KotOR didn't make sense. The Jedi would have totally collapsed as a Organization if their numbers got that low. Anywhere from 1,500 to 3,500 seemed more realistic.
You are confusing my statement, the Jedi Masters and Kreia had stated that around a hundred Jedi remained after the Jedi Civil War then they went on about how these Sith assassins had dwindled their numbers even further, so they fell into exile with the Order unofficially disbanded.

Yes the '10,000' statement made me cringe, especially given that the Jedi had suffered serious casualties in the Great Sith War and Mandalorian Wars and then the Civil War itself.

Emperor-Norton's Avatar


Emperor-Norton
11.17.2012 , 10:04 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Bleeters View Post
I thought that was the point.
It was the point; my point was that Obsidian's point (the Jedi were nearly gone) made no sense. The Jedi couldn't have known with certainty that Revan would succeed and win the War or, if he did, when he would. Assuming KotOR 2's and only KotOR 2's take on how the War was developing, the Jedi were in their last month of existence as an organization when Revan killed Malak. Lets say that there were 7,500 Jedi when the Jedi Civil War started (which probably less than the actual number they had). Now for there to be 100 left at the Wars end, the Jedi would have been losing 3,000 members every single year of the war; that is over 8 members daily. So with 100 members left, at their rate of losses, they would have lasted for less than a month of continued fighting. Yet the Jedi were still active in the War according to KotOR 1. So there is no reason to assume their losses would have stopped or gone down. Yet despite the fact that the War was in actuality nearly over, the Jedi couldn't have known that. The Sith Empire was far from defeat, and the Republic still had a lot of fight left (most of their Fleet was intact and they still had the Core World's and part of the Mid-Rim). They couldn't have used Hindsight to know how to best allot their forces. They would have had to still had to defend the Core World's and if their losses were getting so bad. They would have had to withdraw to lick their wounds and prepare a stand. The other point is that even if they had all of their Jedi at the front at the time, they still wouldn't have enough to reinforce their front. In other words, they had no reserve forces. What I am saying is that the Jedi would have had to have more Jedi than KotOR 2 implied.

TL;DR Yes, it is meant to say that the Jedi lost a lot in the War; but it went overboard with how few Jedi are left.

On the other hand, the Jedi fought an extremely devastating War against one of the best Force Users in History. The War caused tremendous amounts of Jedi to be killed, and the losses on both sides come from the Pre-War Jedi. 30 Years later, they had a huge Schism in the still recovering Order, which led to tremendous Casualties for the Jedi that join Revan in fighting the Mandalorians. Then, the Faction that left turned on the Jedi a few years later and fought an extremely devastating War that killed off Thousands of Jedi. Also, it is important to note that the Jedi Civil War and the Great Sith War are Civil Wars within the Jedi. They are wars where the Casualties on both sides were Jedi, which almost halves the Order's strength before you account for casualties. Yet Drew passes it off as if the Jedi are relatively fine in the Revan Novel.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
You are confusing my statement, the Jedi Masters and Kreia had stated that around a hundred Jedi remained after the Jedi Civil War then they went on about how these Sith assassins had dwindled their numbers even further, so they fell into exile with the Order unofficially disbanded.

Yes the '10,000' statement made me cringe, especially given that the Jedi had suffered serious casualties in the Great Sith War and Mandalorian Wars and then the Civil War itself.
Honestly, I think that both sources on this don't have that great of an interpretation of how things should have been after the war. KotOR 2 is bad for the reasons I mentioned above, Revan is bad for the reasons you and I mentioned.

I laughed when I read that bit. It was as if Drew was illustrating how much he despised having to acknowledge KotOR 2's existence.