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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Muramxx's Avatar


Muramxx
11.17.2012 , 05:13 PM | #891
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
I would love the better competition of premade v premade every match.... if you could give it to me within 2 minutes of queuing.
I don't know what server your on but even solo que takes a bit longer then 2mins. If how it is doesn't meet your "standard" then nothing will, so your point is invalid....

Muramxx's Avatar


Muramxx
11.17.2012 , 05:17 PM | #892
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
Cash, most of us want matching not solo only. I'm just trying to convince the few solo only holdouts that its a bad idea.
Inaccurate...

On the forums it's about 50/50 on a solo que/group que, or keep the ques how they are. In game the % follows the avg player who is more of a PUGer.

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
11.17.2012 , 05:30 PM | #893
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
so that is my question. what happens when "organized teams" start appearing in the solo-queue only bracket?
That would be up to BW to "tweak" the matchmaker so people don't exploit this.
Ideas of the top of my head:
- Guildies starting to queue within a certain time frame gets randomly "delayed" on an individual basis. Not fair, but neither are potentiel attempt to circumvent the queue system
- Guildies gets put on different teams if same faction match.

Et cetera et cetera.

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.17.2012 , 05:41 PM | #894
Quote: Originally Posted by Muramxx View Post
I don't know what server your on but even solo que takes a bit longer then 2mins. If how it is doesn't meet your "standard" then nothing will, so your point is invalid....
Harbinger. How it currently is meets my "standard" just fine, though as I said I would prefer more premade v premade matches if I could get them without decreasing my total % of time in wz. Again I don't believe BW can do that without cross server ques.

The 2 minute number came from how often I believe the matchmaking system tries to put matches together, but nice fallacy there. If you prefer for the sake of semantics the wait could be 5 minutes instead of 2 that doesn't change the point in the slightest. The problem is when it gets over 5 minutes people decide it isn't worth it, stop queing, and then the que becomes half an hour or longer. All so solo quers can get a bracket that would be almost as bad as lowbies.

Muramxx's Avatar


Muramxx
11.17.2012 , 05:49 PM | #895
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
Harbinger. How it currently is meets my "standard" just fine, though as I said I would prefer more premade v premade matches if I could get them without decreasing my total % of time in wz. Again I don't believe BW can do that without cross server ques.

The 2 minute number came from how often I believe the matchmaking system tries to put matches together, but nice fallacy there. If you prefer for the sake of semantics the wait could be 5 minutes instead of 2 that doesn't change the point in the slightest. The problem is when it gets over 5 minutes people decide it isn't worth it, stop queing, and then the que becomes half an hour or longer. All so solo quers can get a bracket that would be almost as bad as lowbies.
Without some kind of statistics to back up facts you can only speculate what the que's would be like. Hardcore people that make up the premades play all the time. That's what makes them "hardcore" or "elite" I highly doubt if there was a premade que (and don't say ranked because that requires two full 8 man premade teams) That the que would go from 15mins (15 is about the max I have to wait even on completely off hours) to an hour. I do not believe the ques would go to the extreme everyone believes because of their experience with ranked WZ's.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.17.2012 , 05:55 PM | #896
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
Bioware, we awaiting your response. This is REAL problem for plenty solo players.

Or you will be continue ignoring community?
well we are on 90 pages and 28 thousands views already. Which one do you think we will hit first without a bioware response? 100 pages or 30.000 views?

I think they are acutely aware of the problem that something or (should i say) many things are wrong with their PvP system but they just don't have anything to say because they can't/don't want to do anything.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
11.17.2012 , 06:19 PM | #897
Muram your response was ignorant of this thread. Its fine but it is.

My point was that many of us talking on this thread want a matchmaking system.

There is major MAJOR contention between the current system and a solo q only / group q only system.

There is less fighting when it comes to making a matchmaking system.

I don't want the system to stay as is. I want a simple matchmaking system that tries to match premades for a few minutes and also allows for mixed faction teams (would help premade matching and would help stop people from gaming the system).

My goal is to get people asking for a solo only q to realize the futility of their attempts and to realize that even a simple matchmaking system including mixed faction teams would make thier pvp experience much much better.

If many of us can get behind one idea then maybe the devs will maybe notice us. However, arguing as we are there really isn't anything the devs would do even if they were watching this thread (not holding my breath lol).

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
11.17.2012 , 07:20 PM | #898
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
<.< Well since you didn't bother to tell me which part you were "debunking" I really have no idea what you're refering to, other then your usual babble.

Fact: Takes more effort to field 2 people than 1. It also takes more effort to field 4 people than 1.
Fact: Effort Influences rewards.
Fact: The less effort you give, the less you should be rewarded.

Seems pretty simple?
Or just put in a solo bracket and hit one button.

Seems pretty simple.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
11.17.2012 , 07:32 PM | #899
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
=P it wouldn't, that would be a terrible idea.

*Sigh* I wish people would actually read what I've said (all of it) before spouting off stupidity. I am all for a proper matchmaking system. If there are 4 premades in queue within 5-10 minutes or so of each other, the game should match them together. If there is some measurable statistic of skill (maybe valor rank, even though that can be raised just by grinding) then the game should try and pit Valor 100 vs. Valor 100. If There is a Valor 80, a Valor 70, and a Valor 50 int eh queue, it should put the Valor 80 and Valor 50 together, then the V70 with the V60. Etc... I totally think the system should wait a -little while- to match people on some criteria rather than throwing the first 16 eligible people into a match.

My issue has come down to the split queue, which literally solves very few of the overal issues with PvP. It will not solve gear-gap issues, it will not solve composition issues, general skill level issues, etc... It targets one thing that we (as players) really have no idea how it's effecting the general population. It also could possible cause several negative side effects for such few potential gains (Longer queue's, dead group queue, promoting solo-ism in an MMO, Lowering skill required for success... etc...). As I said to the other person, I do not feel Bioware can afford to make any more risky fixes (especially given their track record).

We as players do not have the information to make a determination whether a risky venture like a split queue would work well for ToR's target audience, population, and system, and the potential negatives are just as bad (if not worse) than the potential benefits.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But lemme sum up -my- position so I will hopefully stop hearing assumptions and accusations on where I stand. if you look back through the posts here, you'll find I've had the same overal message/points.

1. I believe this game needs cross server queue'ing.
2. I believe this game needs proper matchmaking, basing on group size and/or general overall valor. I say Valor because while it's no indication of personal skill, it should be an indication of progression. I doubt you'd find a valor 80 without full WH.
3. I believe players should be more responsible for their own level of effort, and strive to achieve rather than blame others for their choices.

Simple, no?
The thing is, we have evidence PVP is dieing due to the clear lack and struggle(you admit to having as well) to gather a ranked pvp match. Ranked pvp been around for quite a bit now, nothing has changed...actually I take that back, it's gotten worse. You are offering a solution that changes nothing but label it as "matchmaking" when it's really just Premade vs Pug v2.

I'm sorry I had to open your mind to that fact but I felt it needed to be said before you kept repeating a bad suggestion.

Solo queue bracket will bring more people into PVP thus more potential competition to group pvp. Current system doesn't welcome new people to PVP at all, so you are stuck with the same groups, whom will probably get bored and leave. It's just glaringly obvious how much this would work, but I admit would only truly work with cross server queue's in place.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
11.17.2012 , 07:35 PM | #900
Quote: Originally Posted by Muramxx View Post
Inaccurate...

On the forums it's about 50/50 on a solo que/group que, or keep the ques how they are. In game the % follows the avg player who is more of a PUGer.
Honestly you don't even need to go by the forums for data. You can see how things are on the servers themselves. Ranked pvp is a myth, why? No new blood, No new people queueing up, Therefore no new teams forming up. Current system draws people away from PVP rather than bring them in.

Unless you like fighting the same 2 or 3 teams over and over.