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Signs that you're good or bad at your role


Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
11.17.2012 , 06:10 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by RanisTheSlayer View Post
You obviously haven't been to NiM EC yet. That op separates the men from the boys.
no challenge currently in game requires you to keybind. Of course it makes one's job easier in most situations. I have found a healthy mix with keybinding my most used abilities and mouse clicking my situational abilities. Works just fine.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Petnil's Avatar


Petnil
11.17.2012 , 07:20 AM | #12
for me the most important thing for any class, but especially tanks i suppose, is thinking ahaed. Be ready for the unexpected pat. be ready for the dps who doesnīt know better to be knocked back into a group and adjust. As healer or dps, use cc on incoming mobs and make sure to mark your cc and announce your cc marker when you enter an instance.

For a healer sometimes the best tactic is to let the tunnelvision dps die. If the tank are busy picking up groups of mobs and a dps just tunnel on the strongest mob, if you dont have confidence that you can keep the tunneled dps on their feet, just dont heal them and hope the tank will take care of it. If you heal hard on a tunnelvision dps and he dies, you will have massive agro, and the dps will have learned nothing.

And plz someone tell dps itīs ok to help with interupts. Usually tanks interupt fine, but itīs alot rarer for a dps.
Ofc knowing what to interupt is important. Also when you interupt let the castbar run to 75% or so. Unless itīs a channeled thing ofc. As long as the target is casting heīs not hurting anyone. Itīs the finished cast we need to worry about.

All of this iīm fairly sure most forumusers, if not all, allready knows. I dont put much weight into optimising dps and keybinds. Optimising dps will help for sure, but a bad dps in terms of output is much preferred over a good dps with tunnelvision and no situation awareness.

Ofc, this mainly aplies to FP but iīm fairly sure it aplies to OPīs asswell. Ofc. in the realy hard OPīs you cant afford a dps that have low dps output, but realy, if a dps can do everything else right, then i bet he can learn to dps just fine too. Just teach him how.

Eyesmindassassin's Avatar


Eyesmindassassin
11.17.2012 , 08:44 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by ErosGyne View Post
killing order of mobs? only if you are undergear, must ppl buy and gear up BH gear, so they are overgear for much everthing in the game.
Spoken like a true baddie. Players like you make me lose faith in humanity. Nothing annoys me worse when I'm tanking a FP and DPS jump straight on the strongest mob leaving me to go hit all the others so that the healer doesn't die. If you didn't tunnel vision and did you're supposed to do, me and the healer's job would be a lot easier.

Slurmez's Avatar


Slurmez
11.17.2012 , 10:36 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
Spoken like a true baddie. Players like you make me lose faith in humanity. Nothing annoys me worse when I'm tanking a FP and DPS jump straight on the strongest mob leaving me to go hit all the others so that the healer doesn't die. If you didn't tunnel vision and did you're supposed to do, me and the healer's job would be a lot easier.
So you what? 3 man flashpoints with just one random dps? As for the healer dying I generally use "taunt" and/or a aoe to grab threat. As for hitting a "strong" given the gear and power creep a strong is merely the old "normal" and a dps can kill one during the course of a single ravage channel while tanks can simply 2 shot the normals.

Depending on team setup the most efficient strategies vary greatly, the "basics" are fine but are not always relevant especially in flashpoints which even in pugs are usually insanely simple.

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
11.17.2012 , 10:55 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
Tanks
You are a bad tank if:
You do not have "Target of Target" enabled in your UI.

You fail to hold aggro for one or more mobs.
Test case: Kaon Under Siege

You fail to hold a boss's aggro throughout most or all of the fight.

You are a good tank if:
You can place an enemy exactly where they are supposed to be.
Test case: Soa

You can area taunt with precision.

You coordinate tank switches efficiently with your other tank.
Test case: Fabricator, Zorn & Toth, Ciphas/Heirad/Kel'sara

You use your defensive cooldowns effectively
I'm not sure I totally agree with everything you mentioned about the Tank spec.

First off, Soa is a bad example to determine if someone is a bad tank. The camera angle in game isnt that great for trying to pick up the pillars that appear during the fight, so it can be difficult for a Tank to maneuver Soa into position under the spinning pillar.

I also disagree on the Holding Aggro piece. Some tanks, and Guardian Tanks in particular, from time to time have difficulty holding Aggro on Mobs. Not really sure why this is, cause most other Tank specs have little to no trouble holding them. I didn't believe this until my Guardian had similar issues. Now I just drive my Threat up and that usually takes care of that problem.

This of course leads in to holding Aggro on Bosses, which Guardians also have issues with. The use of Taunt and Challenging Call are almost necessary to acquire or maintain Aggro for most of the fight. With Guardians, the DPS might want to be careful what they use during the fight because raising their Threat level can pull the Mobs and/or Boss off of the Guardian Tank, and if that Tank is waiting for Cooldown on Taunt or Challenging Call, that DPS could be in BIG trouble.

I can't speak to experience on other Tanks, but the Guardian is a unique specimen.
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu

uniz's Avatar


uniz
11.17.2012 , 11:18 AM | #16
key binding and clicking has absolutely nothing to do with how good or bad you are. this is a fallacy learned from those who have played wow with its multitude of stupid players which nothing would help anyways. with any gcd it is all pointless as to any reaction time PERCIEVED to be saved through key binding. a properly set up hot bar is far better than looking down at the keyboard for which key to hit.

there is no way until you play with someone to tell if they are good or bad. even then it is a matter of opinion with some people. even gear choice isn't always a good indication as what they have now might not be perfect but was better than what they had previously.

what my guild looks for in players for prospective guild members are those that listen and are taught able. if not then we deem them as BAD PLAYERS.

SirGusto's Avatar


SirGusto
11.17.2012 , 11:47 AM | #17
I'm not a clicker, but i disagree with the clickers are bad. Especially in pve. 99% of the mobs stand still, how does that make a clicker have a hard time? Pve is way to easy to be overly critical about something so trivial. PvP is where a clicker would be separated from the binder,. The non-stop moving around and watching out for the objectives.

I have most my offense, and defensive skills binded, but do find clicking in certain situations does work out better. I cant have all my skills in an easy to reach place while trying to do others. There are many buttons, but only 1 hand to reach them while strafing. Thanks to a cheapo 3 button mouse. But after spending $80 for the game, and another $700 for a system the game would work on (wouldn't even start up on my old pc). I cant justify spending any more just to play, so i make do with what i got.

Ms_Sunlight's Avatar


Ms_Sunlight
11.17.2012 , 02:34 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by RanisTheSlayer View Post
You obviously haven't been to NiM EC yet. That op separates the men from the boys.
What if you're a woman?

Just asking
Carilie - Scoundrel // Dastelen - Shadow // Dras'yra - Sniper // Elonie - Sorcerer // Undali - Powertech
Server: The Red Eclipse // Guild: The Onyx Guard / The Orbital Guard

soowonlee's Avatar


soowonlee
11.17.2012 , 03:09 PM | #19
Thanks for the comments all. I was admittedly being provocative when I said that not key binding makes you a bad player. Being a clicker doesn't necessarily make you a bad player, per se, but ceteris paribus, a key binder is better than a clicker.

Sydexlic has eloquently demonstrated why key binding is the superior method of game play. I will add one additional argument.

1: Situational awareness is absolutely crucial for effective PvE gameplay. Raid bosses will have multiple mechanics occurring simultaneously during a fight. A player who is not sufficiently situationally aware will be a liability to the group.

2: Frequent camera rotation and repositioning is required in order to situationally aware.

3: Using the mouse to move the camera is faster and far more effective than using the keyboard..

4: It is not feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and click on the quickbar simultaneously.

5: It is feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and use the key bound quickbar simultaneously.

6: A player who can actively reposition the camera to maintain situational awareness while simultaneously attending to their role-specific duties will be more effective than a player who is not able to do both.

7: Therefore, ceteris paribus, a key binder is a more effective player than a clicker.

#4 might be false, but I am skeptical.
Bartemaeus
The Harbinger - <Textbook Execution>

soowonlee's Avatar


soowonlee
11.17.2012 , 03:31 PM | #20
I should also add that I don't claim to be an awesome PvE player. I make lots of mistakes, but I try to get better each time I raid. I find that these guidelines serve as helpful reminders when I'm playing.
Bartemaeus
The Harbinger - <Textbook Execution>