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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.16.2012 , 10:56 PM | #841
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyuuu View Post
Anyone including you and many other on this forum that dont get the reason as to why solo should be vs solo and group should be vs groups are just stupid. why even have the 2 options when one set people is being throw in with the other set of people. you want to have premades go to rwz. but wait i forgot rwz is just farmed half the time. people dont want to do rwz cause they dont want to put effort so they make premade and go to wz and roll people.


Simple fix for both is all group get throw to RWZ and SOLO is for WZ. mix the 2 sets of people screw **** up for the other people. Why you think RWZ dont allow solo people?? people are just plain stupid
First, ranked is 8 people. No less, no more... exactly 8 people needed. Please explain how a 4 man premade is suppose to be an 8 man premade? And before you try "Find 4 friends" realize something; Non-ranked is 1-4. If for whatever reason you can not find 1, 2, or 3 more friends, you can still play.

Second, there are two buttons is to give more people access to warzones. Let's think of non-ranked as a playground. Everyone shares the playground. It's much cheaper to have one playground, and it's community building. Now you've got one "faction" who is unhappy with sharing the playground. Is the right answer give those people their own playground... or make them (like children) understand that We all share the Playground?

Back to the game. Same queue's shares the pool. Bigger pool, more games. More games, more chances for fun, more people playing. Everyone should be happy. Some people aren't happy (for personal reasons) and now demand their own queue. Like the playground, is the right answer to give them their own playground? (No)

You make some changes, you up the rules, you try and be respectful for their differences. Mk2 recruit, free BM relics, games played for daily (instead of wins), etc... You understand some people are worse than others, and you try and give them a more level field (Proper Matchmaking anyone?). Yet you still do not give them their own queue. They still have to share the playground.

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.16.2012 , 11:13 PM | #842
Bump because the fact that Premade Vs Pug matches still exists is preposterous. Split the queues, they simply do not belong faced against one another. At the very least force teams to face groups of players, doesn't matter if they're incomplete teams, 3+ people do not belong against a full on PUG, face them against at least a group of 2+.

I run both Premades and Pugs, the truth is Pug play is far more frequent, especially if a person wants to enjoy ALT play or simply is more active than their friends/guild. Can't force your players into waiting and queuing only in groups for a less than unbearable experience, being punished for playing when friends/guildmates aren't online is not a very pleasant nor enjoyable experience.

With the disgustingly small player pools competition grows stale extremely quickly; why you (Bioware) have not implemented Cross Server queues to support a more robust pool and the possibility of a proper matchmaking system is just inefficient, complete lack of foresight, incompetence or perhaps simple ignorance.

I'm all for fair competition but the fact is Premade Vs Pug play is simply not competition. For a Premade it is rarely if ever a challenge 9/10 times it is a clear and easy victory. For a PUG it is nothing short of one of the most frustrating, annoying and unbearable experiences this game has to offer; this is not something you want the vast majority of your player base to experience, especially the newcomers trying out your game.

Split Premade and PUG queues, implement an adequate matchmaking system and cross server function, at the very least for PvP.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.16.2012 , 11:22 PM | #843
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
Split Premade and PUG queues.
No. (for the exact reasons of longer queue times and mismatched 2-3 teams.)

Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
implement an adequate matchmaking system and cross server function, at the very least for PvP.
Yes, yes, yes. Full agreement.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.16.2012 , 11:25 PM | #844
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
there are always far more pugs in a mmo..
this much seems true in my experience. make of it what you will. but I think that anyone who says otherwise is kidding him/herself.

:2cents:
Krackerjäck VG | Krackerjak PT | Krackcommando | Deinon Merc | other stuff on Jedi Covenant.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
11.16.2012 , 11:41 PM | #845
Dude manag good luck to you if you think you understand statistics.

Lets make it simple. There are 3 people. Only 1 can win. Assuming all else equal what % chance does each have at winning? I don't think that is 50%.

It is pretty obvious that there are more puggers than premaders (not on forums though) and the whining is from the puggers. So thats what we are discussing here. The premade is already the premade. They are not hoping to be on the premade. They are lol. The 12 puggers are the ones hoping and only 4 can be. If you are never 1 of the 4 premaders then you are with the 12. The 4 doesn't matter. You are competing with 11 others to be on the premade team. Simple.

If you don't understand this though I'm done. The important thing here is matchmaking. I'm just making the thread stay at the top lol.

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.16.2012 , 11:55 PM | #846
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
No. (for the exact reasons of longer queue times and mismatched 2-3 teams.)



Yes, yes, yes. Full agreement.
Yes, with cross server function, queue times would not be a problem. The pools would be big enough to support the split queues. Premade Vs Pug play should not exist, period.

If Bioware keeps it up and does not implement Cross Server function, proper matchmaking and split queues in a tactful manner (anything more than 2 queues could not be supported by the population of this game, simple Premade and Pug queue split would be sufficient) the game will slowly bleed out the remainder of the players it has.

Premades are the minority, although I enjoy competitive and engaging play and consider myself part of this category, the game will be nothing without the masses, the masses here are the Pugs, not the Premades. Accept it and stop deluding yourself. Elite are called elite for a reason and they sure as heII don't belong against Pugs.

True competition is in Ranked play, I'll admit it had a disastrous implementation and horrendous support topped off with poor matchmaking; but that is were premades belong. Bioware needs to fix it and make it more attractive for Premades to end up here instead of against Pugs.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
11.17.2012 , 12:05 AM | #847
Leon, in a perfect world we would have cross server and split q's /etc. However, lets be realistic. BW isn't doing cross server anytime soon.

What we can have if we press them enough is a matchmaking system that makes premades wait at least a couple minutes if needed and allows for different faction teams.

This will end sync q'n outright. It will also end the problem where if multiple premades are q'n they still mostly fight pugs. It will also make it so that pugs are more likely to either be on a premade against another premade or they are pugvpug.

Lets please get behind that system. Making it into whether we get cross server or not is rather pointless since BW isn't going to anytime soon.

Managuense's Avatar


Managuense
11.17.2012 , 12:22 AM | #848
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
Dude manag good luck to you if you think you understand statistics.

.
This is going nowhere. You do not grasp simple statistics. It's pointless.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.17.2012 , 12:30 AM | #849
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
Premade Vs Pug play should not exist, period.
=P not meaning to sound childish or rude, but adding "Period" on the end of your statement doesn't end the argument, doesn't strengthen your point, and really just sounds stupid.

Please explain to me why PuG's should get their own queue?

We're talking about people who are not willing to take 5 minutes and put a group together (or make friends to begin with). Their complaint is that they're losing, but they are unwilling to take the steps to fix that. I get there are times when PuG'ing is your only option (friends not on, only got a half hour or so, or simply not feeling social today.) Shouldn't an Massive Multiplayer Game be encouraging people to group up and step up?

If PuG's do get their own queue, why should they get rewards equal to the "group" queue?

The complain is once again, PuG's lose to premades because... because... better group composition, coordination, communication, etc... If PuG's get their own little casual happy-palace queue, why should they be rewarded for essentially wallowing in their sucktastic-ness. =P I know that sounds rude, but it's pretty much true.

Why do we need split queue's instead of (or with) proper matchmaking? Wouldn't a more flexible, inclusive system be better than split pools?

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.17.2012 , 12:32 AM | #850
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
Leon, in a perfect world we would have cross server and split q's /etc. However, lets be realistic. BW isn't doing cross server anytime soon.

What we can have if we press them enough is a matchmaking system that makes premades wait at least a couple minutes if needed and allows for different faction teams.

This will end sync q'n outright. It will also end the problem where if multiple premades are q'n they still mostly fight pugs. It will also make it so that pugs are more likely to either be on a premade against another premade or they are pugvpug.

Lets please get behind that system. Making it into whether we get cross server or not is rather pointless since BW isn't going to anytime soon.
Agreed. That sounds like a decent suggestion and temporary fix to our problems. Would suffice as the problems you mentioned are some of the biggest in the current system. Sincerely hope Bioware has not thrown Cross Server off the table completely, it so easily and eloquently fixes an abundance of problems and loopholes.