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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Managuense's Avatar


Managuense
11.16.2012 , 07:44 PM | #831
[QUOTE=DarthRaika;5421047]manag dude the 4 in the premade don't count since you said you are as likely to end up on a premade side than not. No, if you are a pug you are less likely to end up on the premade team than on the pug team in the example I gave.

QUOTE]

Ok this is your example:

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika

Manag....16 players q up. 8 imps 8 pubs. 4 people are a premade 12 are puggers. 8 are sad 4 are happy. not 50/50 buddy.


It's elementary statistics. Using Bayes theorem, given that there is one premade (group of 4), the chance that the premade is on your side is 50%.

Also, I assert that the four in the premade do count, and they're happy too. That makes 8 happy, 8 sad.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.16.2012 , 07:57 PM | #832
Quote: Originally Posted by Muramxx View Post
It's still the same thing just in a gray area. Play this way (they way I play) or get owned repeatedly until you just give up and quit (which would help no one.) which is the same as "group like me, and play like me" just worded more polietly. The CAPs was for the reading impaired, my reason for not grouping is just as vaild as anyone else's reason for grouping. Too say "your reasons for playing your way aren't as good as my reasons that you should play like me" shows just how narrow minded a person is.

As usual you bring a char and thier gear into it which doesn't suprise me. Your suggesting that because somone wants to have an even match it must because they don't know how to play? Far from it, it's an undeniable fact that premades tip the scale in PVP. Take a PVP match lets say one is a full PUG one is a man premade. one has 5 Mercs (has happened to me several times) and the premade team has 2 healers and a tank and then whatever else. Who is going to win? Mercs get *****, and with that lack of DPS they will not be able to do much of anything. So yeah sorry for people wanting a fair fight. Their is no perfect solution to solve this. Either ques get a little longer for more even fights or the ques get longer because people enjoy noobstomping and people just stop playing PVP. So take your pick even fights and waiting a little longer or continue with how it is until the que is out of control long and the premades have to do exactly what has been suggested over and over in order to have a decent que time... play each other.
See, you are equating Playing with Winning. Just like the trooper wearing strength gear, you are free to play as you like, but you must accept the consequences of doing so. I know Commando's are Sub par in terms of balance, but I choose to use one as my main. When I die/lose on the Commando, I don't get angry at my opponents for being good. One of two things happened:

They're better than me (80% likely) or I'm using a sub-optimal class/spec/tactic for personal reasons (20% likely).

Yet... somehow I doubt the idea that there is a "less right" way to play is going to stick with most people. It seems they're more keen to blame something on being OP, unfair, and justify it with a reason I'm pretty sure I've seen my 6 year old cousin use.

As for even matching... well I agree. A matchmaking system that tried to match by either group size/valor-rank/composition/etc... would be great. That system needs to be flexible enough though, to say "Hey, I've had 16 people waiting 3/4/5 minutes without an optimal composition, time to set up a match." A split queue doesn't do that.

PS. There is a reason Min/Maxxer's exist and are generally the best. There are many ways to play Mario, but only one way to save the Princess.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.16.2012 , 08:11 PM | #833
Quote: Originally Posted by Sicari_Jonathan View Post
+1

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. Organized Disciplined groups beat disorganized undisciplined groups, that's been a fact of warfare since oh, the Romans at least (Macedonians before that?).
yes. it was the hallmark of alexander's modified phalanx formations.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.16.2012 , 08:14 PM | #834
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
yes. it was the hallmark of alexander's modified phalanx formations.
<.< I think we can look even further back, at prehistoric wolves/pack animals vs. food

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
11.16.2012 , 08:29 PM | #835
sigh manag........ sigh...sigh

The premade can be ignored. There are 12 players hoping to get with the premade. Only 4 of them will. You can read stuff in books but you obviously can't apply it.

BTW, don't try to compete against me in math/science you will fail miserably.

Why I don't count the premade is because in my example I don't need to and in the happy part since we are talking about premades and pugs there are always far more pugs in a mmo. This is due to many things such as pugs playing less often while paying the same amount, and lots of other reasons. BTW if there were equal numbers then this wouldn't be an issue.

Muramxx's Avatar


Muramxx
11.16.2012 , 08:39 PM | #836
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
See, you are equating Playing with Winning. Just like the trooper wearing strength gear, you are free to play as you like, but you must accept the consequences of doing so. I know Commando's are Sub par in terms of balance, but I choose to use one as my main. When I die/lose on the Commando, I don't get angry at my opponents for being good. One of two things happened:

They're better than me (80% likely) or I'm using a sub-optimal class/spec/tactic for personal reasons (20% likely).

Yet... somehow I doubt the idea that there is a "less right" way to play is going to stick with most people. It seems they're more keen to blame something on being OP, unfair, and justify it with a reason I'm pretty sure I've seen my 6 year old cousin use.

As for even matching... well I agree. A matchmaking system that tried to match by either group size/valor-rank/composition/etc... would be great. That system needs to be flexible enough though, to say "Hey, I've had 16 people waiting 3/4/5 minutes without an optimal composition, time to set up a match." A split queue doesn't do that.

PS. There is a reason Min/Maxxer's exist and are generally the best. There are many ways to play Mario, but only one way to save the Princess.
Yet again your playing in a gray area, and slightly off topic. It's all together different saying "nerf this so I don't get beat so much" or "My char sucks because..." which is a while different topic as the class balances can be pretty huge Maurader vs. merc for example.

No one should have to conform to anyone else's style of play to have fun. A PUGer shouldnt have to put in 45+ hours a week, where as the Elitiest shouldn't have to play all by there lonesome. As for Mario there is a different way to save the princess, should I get the feather and fly past everything and then just land on Koopa? Maybe I should use the flower and just shoot him? I think what you mean to say is the out come is the same the problem is the path to that outcome is very unbalanced. You have PUGers the get the flower and have to blast their way through and and when they get to Koopa... guess what he is invincible because now Koopa has 3 turtles that are healing him and he is invincible to the fireball. That's what most PVP matches are when you compare PUG groups to Premade.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.16.2012 , 08:46 PM | #837
Quote: Originally Posted by Muramxx View Post
No one should have to conform to anyone else's style of play to have fun.
Fun is subjective and can not be balanced around. Likewise, my Trooper with 1000 strength and 500 aim shouldn't have to conform to that boring ol' stacking aim playstyle to have "fun."

But please enlighten me. Define "Fun" for me in your own words.

Managuense's Avatar


Managuense
11.16.2012 , 09:56 PM | #838
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post

BTW, don't try to compete against me in math/science you will fail miserably.

.
Whoops, looks like I did.

You are equally likely as a PUGer to benefit from as to be detrimented by a premade. What's so difficult to understand?

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
11.16.2012 , 10:23 PM | #839
Quote: Originally Posted by Managuense View Post
Whoops, looks like I did.

You are equally likely as a PUGer to benefit from as to be detrimented by a premade. What's so difficult to understand?
Anyone including you and many other on this forum that dont get the reason as to why solo should be vs solo and group should be vs groups are just stupid. why even have the 2 options when one set people is being throw in with the other set of people. you want to have premades go to rwz. but wait i forgot rwz is just farmed half the time. people dont want to do rwz cause they dont want to put effort so they make premade and go to wz and roll people.


Simple fix for both is all group get throw to RWZ and SOLO is for WZ. mix the 2 sets of people screw **** up for the other people. Why you think RWZ dont allow solo people?? people are just plain stupid

Managuense's Avatar


Managuense
11.16.2012 , 10:37 PM | #840
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyuuu View Post
Anyone including you and many other on this forum that dont get the reason as to why solo should be vs solo and group should be vs groups are just stupid. why even have the 2 options when one set people is being throw in with the other set of people. you want to have premades go to rwz. but wait i forgot rwz is just farmed half the time. people dont want to do rwz cause they dont want to put effort so they make premade and go to wz and roll people.


Simple fix for both is all group get throw to RWZ and SOLO is for WZ. mix the 2 sets of people screw **** up for the other people. Why you think RWZ dont allow solo people?? people are just plain stupid
I never said anything as to what should be done. However, as a statistician, all I did was attempt to explain simple statistics.

What you do with the results is up to you.