(aside from playing the wrong advanced spec.)

 

This video shows two (I assume) relatively well geared players. One is powertech, one is mercenary, both are Pyro spec.

 

According to Bioware, we're all within 5% of each other, right?

 

According to some people on the forums, a Merc Pyro should never get beat by a PT Pyro.... because cleanse trumps all, and it's 'easier to kite' with.

 

So here's the video in question. Disclaimer, this is not my video, but I came across it looking for my daily youtube PVP dose. I apologize if the owner of the video did not want it posted.... and maybe if either person from this video peruse the forum you could add insight.

 

 

 

So all things being equal, BW's statement on DPS, their expertise at class balance, etc, etc.... what is the Mercenary doing wrong to get beat so soundly?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Krozis

A pyro PT beating a pyro merc...Interesting.

When I was on my merc, the best shot I had was in huttball, opening up from range with both of us up on the walkways. What would happen is the PT would pull me over, then I would push him off his platform so I could keep range. Better kill him before he gets another pull though.

 

Other than that rare one on one and entirely situational sequence, I would say you are hard pressed.

It doesn't even look like the merc is trying to kite, if he is he's doing it terribly. The Merc has to stay outside 10m, he doesn't use his cleanse to remove the slows and he uses his knockback before the PT uses his grapple. Still going to be tough to take out an equally geared PT but if you just face tank it, this is what happens.

assuming the same gear and skill level, a powertech ALWAYS beats a Mercenary.

 

powertech just has more tools. greater burst potential, perma-slow, crit chance buff, etc

 

whoever says cleanse trumps all is just flat wrong. it doesnt make a lot of sense to cleanse against a powertech, as the only chance you have to win is a straight dps race, and you just wasted a GCD on removing a DoT that will be back before your GCD is over.

 

the only way to beat a powertech as a merc is if the powertech is really bad and makes lots of mistakes (which is unlikely seeing as how easy powertech is to play).

umm thats what happens when a PT goes 1v1 with just about anything... Mara's its close but they tear a part every other class

assuming the same gear and skill level, a powertech ALWAYS beats a Mercenary.

 

1v1 tournaments seem to favor arsenal merc in a matchup vs. Pyro PT. Provided you save Jet boost for Grapple.

 

When the PT uses his CC breaker is a win-win situation for the merc - if he breaks the 4 second stun you can concussion missile him (instant if necessary) and heal yourself to full, if he doesn't then you'll be able to put full heat signature stacks on him for the 5k Heatseeker.

 

I don't play Pyro Merc so I can't determine how that matchup is.

I love the way all PTS are jumping around, because...there is nothing else to do while, on the other hand, I try not to jump because it slows me down.

Yeah, I just love it.

It doesn't even look like the merc is trying to kite, if he is he's doing it terribly. The Merc has to stay outside 10m, he doesn't use his cleanse to remove the slows and he uses his knockback before the PT uses his grapple. Still going to be tough to take out an equally geared PT but if you just face tank it, this is what happens.

 

I agree 100%.

 

A merc who tries to fight a powertech within melee ranged is going to be roflstomped.

(aside from playing the wrong advanced spec.)

 

This video shows two (I assume) relatively well geared players. One is powertech, one is mercenary, both are Pyro spec.

 

According to Bioware, we're all within 5% of each other, right?

 

According to some people on the forums, a Merc Pyro should never get beat by a PT Pyro.... because cleanse trumps all, and it's 'easier to kite' with. He also doesn't bother healing himself when he broke LoS with the PT.

 

So here's the video in question. Disclaimer, this is not my video, but I came across it looking for my daily youtube PVP dose. I apologize if the owner of the video did not want it posted.... and maybe if either person from this video peruse the forum you could add insight.

 

 

So all things being equal, BW's statement on DPS, their expertise at class balance, etc, etc.... what is the Mercenary doing wrong to get beat so soundly?

 

That merc is just *********** terrible. He didn't use his CC break properly, and didn't use his stuns properly. He also doesn't know how to kite.

 

The fight also favored the PT since they started close to each other both times. In a real match the PT would be farther away, and be forced to run up while getting hit or use his grapple. It would be like starting a fight with a knight by being next to him so he couldn't leap to you, and thus severely disadvantaging the knight.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Smashbrother

Merc Pyro vs Powertech Pyro:

 

Merc doesn't have Flame Burst, a spammable decent damage ability that also procs Rail Shot for PT

Merc has (talented) 16% proc chance on DoT+slow, PT has 100%

Merc has better Unload

Merc has a KB, stun, mezz. PT has a pull, stun. Both have the same defense CD (unless talented differently)

Range advantage: Merc. Burst advantage: PT

 

The single advantage the Merc has in this fight is being able to use the mezz to self-heal. Gear being equal, the Merc has to hope that the PT is a bad player. The only way the Merc wins this fight is to stay 10-14 meters away to avoid the onslaught of burst to the face, and avoid Grapple. That's a very narrow kiting range, because at 15+, he's going to get pulled back in.

Edited November 14, 2012 by TheronFett

I love how merc is billed as "If the best defense is a good offense, the Mercenary’s got the most intimidating defense in the galaxy." , and powertech is billed as "The best in shielding, defensive tactics and high-powered flamethrowers combine to make the Powertech an impenetrable one-man blockade, getting up close and personal to take down enemies of all sizes." After reading those descriptions I would expect the mercenary to be the better at dps, but both those statements describe powertech.

Basically what Cash said. PT has bigger burst and more tools. 2 instants that reset HiB and a stronger HiB to boot. It's no contest. If you ever played a Merc/Commando, you would already know this. The only chance a Pryo Merc has is to DPS from ranged and hope the PT doesn't see him until he's at 30% hp lol. Pyro merc and assault commando are built around their dots. They are up 99% of the time. There is no way you can insta-mez and heal to full. Your dots will break the mez immediately.

 

Edit: Whoever said a merc should beat a PT clearly has only read the descriptions posted by BW and has never actually played either class.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Asukaa

Merc Pyro vs Powertech Pyro:

 

Merc doesn't have Flame Burst, a spammable decent damage ability that also procs Rail Shot for PT

Merc has (talented) 16% proc chance on DoT+slow, PT has 100%

Merc has better Unload

Merc has a KB, stun, mezz. PT has a pull, stun. Both have the same defense CD (unless talented differently)

Range advantage: Merc. Burst advantage: PT

 

The single advantage the Merc has in this fight is being able to use the mezz to self-heal. Gear being equal, the Merc has to hope that the PT is a bad player. The only way the Merc wins this fight is to stay 10-14 meters away to avoid the onslaught of burst to the face, and avoid Grapple. That's a very narrow kiting range, because at 15+, he's going to get pulled back in.

 

this

 

same applies for arsenal. you will only beat the powertech if they are bad and make a lot of mistakes

According to Bioware, we're all within 5% of each other, right?

 

You have to understand what BW means by that statement. They do NOT mean that each player is within 5% (dps+protection+healing) of every other player. Rather they mean that the meta average of each subclass is within 5% of every other subclass. That is how BW manages class balance.

 

The problem is that those meta averages do not account for variances in player skill. And who plays Merc dps anymore? Virtually no one. Only the most skilled, most geared, most stubborn players. And so BW manages class (im)balance by nerfing those expert Merc players until their meta average productivity is equal (within 5%) of the meta average productivity of FotM subclasses that are filled with undergeared players still learning to play their class.

 

When you compare top players in different subclasses, in order to eliminate variance from player skill, the true order of subclass dominance is evident. Jugg/Guardian rage/focus are at the top with the ability to score up to 1.2 million damage. Mara/Sent rage/focus are close behind. Sorc dps can do the same if completely unmolested, but 1 million is a more realistic target. PT/Vanguard can manage 1 million damage, but are more reliable than Sorcs. Merc dps can manage about 800k, or about 50% less than the best dps classes. Now you begin to understand why Merc dps will always lose a 1v1 matchup between players of equivalent skill.

 

Put simply, managing game (im)balance using meta average productivity is a bad policy. But it is the BW policy.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Macroecon

I can't even tell what the Merc is doing besides standing and dieing.

 

He should have:

 

-Started farther away

-Not backpedal, but instead strafe away from the enemy

-Used Jet Boost sooner

-Healed a good amount after the KB off the ledge

 

I only watched it once and it was hard to see, but did the Merc even use a proper rotation? Or is he undergeared? The Merc's 1-time initial rotation should do close to 50% damage on the PT. Just that alone tells me its not a legit test.

 

Incendiary Missile -> Thermal -> Railshot -> Stun? -> Unload -> Railshot -> Power Surge + Thermal Override + Fusion Missile -> Running, Strafing Rapid Shots until someone is dead.

 

You can replace the Rapid Shots with Power Shot if there is no hope to kite.

 

Also, using Cleanse in this situation basically seals your own doom. What are you going to do, spam Cleanse on yourself and never attack?

Also, using Cleanse in this situation basically seals your own doom. What are you going to do, spam Cleanse on yourself and never attack?

 

Proper timing of cleanse can give you a lot though. It can remove sabotage charges, sticky grenades etc before they go off. A significant advantage, if you ask me.

 

Currently practicing a lot with Assault Commando, and the only class I genuinely have trouble beating (provided the player is worth his salt) is a Marauder. Annihilation is least trouble (their DoTs and slows can be cleansed, they can be kited), Rage and Carnage are most - practically unbeatable if the player's on to me.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Helig

Proper timing of cleanse can give you a lot though. It can remove sabotage charges, sticky grenades etc before they go off. A significant advantage, if you ask me.

 

Currently practicing a lot with Assault Commando, and the only class I genuinely have trouble beating (provided the player is worth his salt) is a Marauder. Annihilation is least trouble (their DoTs and slows can be cleansed, they can be kited), Rage and Carnage are most - practically unbeatable if the player's on to me.

 

yes, cleanse has some very good applications, but in a 1v1 with a powertech its not the greatest way to spend a GCD

Of the top of my head he broke the short stun = BIG mistake.

Of the top of my head 2 he knocks the PT down and instead of healing himself (HE HAS HEALS) he goes to the ledge and lets the PT grapple him. I'm sorry this merk was terrible and lost to a better player.

And finally he used the shield when he was down to 20% health - when its not going to help him anyway at such low hp. Im sorry this video just screams for getting some skill to the merk player.

Edited November 15, 2012 by SajPl

I could tell what he was doing wrong the moment I read the title.

 

He rolled a mercenary.

I don't know what kind of gear that merc was using, but his rail only crit for half of the powertech's rail.