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(Sniper) Does it get better?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
(Sniper) Does it get better?

Beansoup's Avatar


Beansoup
11.14.2012 , 09:24 AM | #31
It does. However you are as good as your team is. If it works, it's bangarang.
B e a n s o u p
The one man institution you can always trust to deliver. Quality bartending at the Guilded Cantina since the fifth thread

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
11.14.2012 , 09:41 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
The Agent/Smuggler class dominate in pre-50 PvP because they scale very well. Once you hit 50, though. Well, you'll figure it out.

You've gone from being the big fish in a little pond to little more than a targeting dummy.
Yes this pretty much sums it up. And on our server, where Reps dominate, it's even worse. When you go up against a team that is all War Hero geared, then your damage will be extremely mitigated. After I got to 50, it took a long time to get that 5K medal and the first time I did get it was on a sorc who had low expertise. The Reps do sometimes have a guy a in full Recruit and I was always happy when I saw those because I'd think finally someone I can kill with ease, but the Reps do such a great job of protecting him that I was just getting myself stomped trying to kill those guys. When you have to go through a War Hero healer and War Hero vanguard to kill one Recruit smuggler, it's just not worth it.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
11.14.2012 , 09:57 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Sideblaze View Post
Was he a marksman? or engy?
Marksman

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
11.14.2012 , 10:14 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Stealth is a hard counter to snipers, how are you 3 so bad you got owned by one sniper. Did none of you have your cc break or def cds up at all? That's the only way I could possibly see him win.
I don't know I don't have much trouble with stealthers on my gunslinger. I don't know about you but I don't waste my stun breaker on roots and I'm a deception assassin which means I can't cleanse roots with shroud. Can't really say how good the other 2 are since we just met in that wz. They were marauders so I'm guessing they were bad FOTMers. We got completely destroyed though because the sniper was a part of a 4-man WH/EWH premade and they just overgeared and outplayed us so none of us really put up amazing numbers. It's not a far stretch to say that the premade had almost as much hp as our entire team combined.

Also force shroud lasts 3 secs so it's kind of hard to time in when he will stun and the other defensive cooldown didn't seem to do make him miss much. Besides he threw a flashbang once I popped it and proceeded to kill the second one. When the mez wore off I had the explosive probe on me and he was channeling that attack with a knockback if specced. Force sped to him and was stabbed in the back which I broke. He was hunkering down so I couldn't stun him and being 50% hp already I barely managed to make a dent on his health pool before sending me to the spawn.

So far it's the only sniper/gunslinger that has been able to overpower me so completely that I couldn't dish out more than 2 attacks before being pushed and rooted out of range.

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
11.14.2012 , 10:40 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
I've gone against a WH/EWH sniper that 3v1 on a node in Civil war and won. Cover pulse, flash bang, knock back on the heavy hitter, the defensive skills etc. My then mostly battlemaster assassin was destroyed before even getting close. Stealth and positioning didn't help at all. My other 2 battlemaster melee comrades were sent to the respawn quickly too. He picked us off one by one. Keep working on it and I'm sure you'll become better at it.
Three assassins/melee should always be able to destroy one sniper even if he is max geared. Only way they would have trouble is if all three were in Recruit or the sniper had a healer behind him as they so often do (at least if I'm playing my healer). I don't know what went wrong with that picture.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.14.2012 , 10:41 AM | #36
I have a relatively well geared Sniper myself (BH with a few WH pieces) and here are some (hopefully useful tips) on how to play it. Your experience gets better which each step you implement.

1. Pick your spec carefully. Personally I play Marksmanship becuase Engineering just doesn't feel sniper-y enough for me. Marksmanship is an awesome single-target killer spec (which I think snipers are) but Engineering is more useful for defending objectives. You probably get a bit more damage out of Engineering because of all the AoE effects but fewer actual kills for the same reason. I recommend avoiding Lethality because of the Lingering Toxins talent. Putting a 30-sec long debuff on players makes them immune to cc and mezz and that can be a problem in many situations.

2. Positioning is alawys critical. The Sniper AC is very terrain dependant. Always pick an inconspicious location well behind friendly lines preferably with some hard cover, too, nearby. As you're an unencumbered heavy hitter, tanks will be thrilled to taunt you and reduce your overall dmg by 30% (at least I get taunted quite often if I give them the chance). Watch out for tanks and stay well outside of taunt range!

3. Avoid 1v1 situations if you can. Especially against melee. While it's not a bad class 1v1, it's not a great one either unless you have a terrain advantage (like a ledge or something). A marauder, a jugg or a tankasin can tear you a new ***hole pretty quickly if you let them get close. I tend to run away quickly into large friendly groups if I see a melee single me out. (Remember that while you're unjumpable, Sins can use Force Speed and Maras Predation to quicky close in on you.)

4. Change positions frequently. Staying in one place for too long will get noticed. Also there are other benefits associated with moving periodically like an instant Snipe (Snap Shot) and passive damage mitigation (Ballistic Dampeners).

5. In Marksmanship your attacks can do tremendous single-target damage but they are also vulnerable to line-of-sight issues. Try to pick targets in big open areas with few pieces of cover available. If you are focusing one target down (like a healer) look around where he can run to for cover if his HP gets too low before you engage him.

6. Watch for counter-snipers and gunslingers. If you see one, open with Diversion. They (you) are nothing without cover. If they (you) can't take cover and use essential skills, the Sniper dies very quickly. If you get hit by Diversion stay behind hard cover until the effect is gone.

7. While you're a single target killer, don't neglect AoE skills! Snipers get two awesome AoE skills even in Marksmansip spec. Place Orbital Strike periodically on objectives you're guarding like doors, nodes etc to prevent a stealth cap. Suppresive Fire is often overlooked (as it does quite low damage) but it's a great anti-stealth instant AoE skill like Stealth Scan or Hail of Bolts. Most Maras, Sins and Operatives (and their Rep counterparts) tend to vanish around/below 30%. Have Suppressive Fire ready to counter their last ditch attempt to escape. (I know good players use Force Shroud and Undying Rage in this case but visible usually means killable.)

8. Use Leg Shot before Ambush. Ambush puts a very noticable red marker on the target for all to see. It's their clue to run away if they want to live. Good players can often find cover in time. Deny them the opportunity by immobilizing them before you target them with your biggest attack.

9. Use your mezz to interrupt. Interrupts are a weakness of the Sniper because one 12cd rupt is oft times inadequate against a healer for example that can throw out large heals every 4 or 5 seconds. I usually use my normal interrupt on Salvation/Revivification and Flash Bang when they try to get their HP back up with Deliverance/Dark Infusion. This leaves the enemy healer vulnerable for a quick Snipe, Takedown and Followthrough (which at low HP usually kills them) before they can get off another big heal. Multiple people focusing the same healer helps, of course, while another healer healing your target hinders you.

10. As much as it pains me to say, go Biochem or Cybertech. I would recommend Biochem because of the short range on grenades means you'll be using them less often than melee classes. Still, I always like to have a few Seismic Grenades ready just for that pesky Mara that wants to wave his glowstick in my face. (Also, unless they're really low on HP, I'll just stun and run away.)

Been called a coward for running away from melee but it's what I do. I know the strengths of my class but I also know the limitations.

Hopefully this short (?) guide can help you to become a real killer on the battlefield and will enjoy reading it just as much as I enjoyed writing it.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

ZipZep's Avatar


ZipZep
11.14.2012 , 10:42 AM | #37
Would also suggest speccing Engineering. Its such a powerfull build for 1 vs 1, and the extra stun from plasma probe is really good and a great utility tool aswell objective wise. The extra shield probe, when you get your gear, will absorb dmg for almost 3k dmg, thats 6k when you pop both.

Ofc, as long as you are in recruit things are different. When you get your gear, engineer sniper becomes one of the most annoying classes to deal with.
Played a rated game yesterday vs one of the normally really strong guilds on ToFN, took 450k dmg in 3/4 of a voidstar, more than any other on my team, simply because other team knows they cant cap whilst im alive. Not a fun game for me, i died constantly, but i provided a tool that gave my team the edge.

Burst wise we are a little limited since we relly heavily on explosive probe which has a 30 sec CD.
Engineer sniper is by far my favorite toon, and can only suggest you give a real try before you dismiss it
Whasp - Herbs & Derps PvP guild ToFN

Slacking Engineer Sniper and Worst Mara EU

stringcat's Avatar


stringcat
11.14.2012 , 10:46 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
I
Been called a coward for running away from melee but it's what I do. I know the strengths of my class but I also know the limitations.
Running from melee? Snipers eat melee up and spit them out. (Minus DPS ops, and you can't run from them anyway). That IS the strength of your class. MM means having a two-second cast time OS every 45 seconds. Worse case scenario, you've knocked them back a couple times and they win the prize of fighting you in your OS.
Valiya Illegal Test Kitchen The Bastion

Hialot's Avatar


Hialot
11.14.2012 , 10:49 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Sideblaze View Post
Hey, This isn't some post whining about how "X is overpowered than Y, Nerf Z." or "These people are being too tactical, nerf grouping"

I'm just curious. My sniper hit 50 yesterday, go and is my favorite one yet, However he's also my only toon i really PVP with Grabbed the recruit gear, and i notice that even the tanks seem to hit me for 5000k(+) easily, while i can't even pray to get a 2500.

I'm pretty sure i'm playing my class "Right" Maybe not the optimal rotation. But i know i'm probably not doing anything -wrong-

Example: I see an assassin coming for me, I cover pulse him, hit him with crit snipe >Ambush> FT and he doesn't even lose a quarter of his health. Now all my heavy hitters are on cooldown, He's fine, and then proceeds to hit me for 10k in a 5-second interval. Shield does nothing, Die instantly.

I know recruit gear sucks, But once i get Battlemaster will i finally be able to dish out the hurt? Or will i still get stomped, Just -less- stomped? I can handle getting focused, but when i have the range advantage, I'd like to think the sniper could handle 1v1 very easily.

If the battlemaster gear will -really- help me out, What would be the best upgrade path to take? Field tech or medic? The only BM gear i have is the Enforcer's Sniper Rifle, Everything else is recruit (For pvp)

Edit: Guess i should -probably- post my spec, I run pure marksman with energy tanks and the crit talent from lethality.

Assuming each one is played correctly, are lethality and marksman on equal ground for PVP? Other topics with that argument really seem to lack any data.
Mjstoner is the best MM sniper in SWTOR fully aug'd WH both elites + extra mods altered for optimum output. Can do over 7k crits when played right. will destroy every 1v1 except a good stealth sin/shadow or ops/gs give me the most difficulty... Eng spec will do dbl over all dps in a wz due to the plasma probe aoe MM kills faster. I think both specs are awesome fully geared
THE FORCE IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE

Beansoup's Avatar


Beansoup
11.14.2012 , 10:56 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
I have a relatively well geared Sniper myself (BH with a few WH pieces) and here are some (hopefully useful tips) on how to play it. Your experience gets better which each step you implement.

1. Pick your spec carefully. Personally I play Marksmanship becuase Engineering just doesn't feel sniper-y enough for me. Marksmanship is an awesome single-target killer spec (which I think snipers are) but Engineering is more useful for defending objectives. You probably get a bit more damage out of Engineering because of all the AoE effects but fewer actual kills for the same reason. I recommend avoiding Lethality because of the Lingering Toxins talent. Putting a 30-sec long debuff on players makes them immune to cc and mezz and that can be a problem in many situations.

2. Positioning is alawys critical. The Sniper AC is very terrain dependant. Always pick an inconspicious location well behind friendly lines preferably with some hard cover, too, nearby. As you're an unencumbered heavy hitter, tanks will be thrilled to taunt you and reduce your overall dmg by 30% (at least I get taunted quite often if I give them the chance). Watch out for tanks and stay well outside of taunt range!

3. Avoid 1v1 situations if you can. Especially against melee. While it's not a bad class 1v1, it's not a great one either unless you have a terrain advantage (like a ledge or something). A marauder, a jugg or a tankasin can tear you a new ***hole pretty quickly if you let them get close. I tend to run away quickly into large friendly groups if I see a melee single me out. (Remember that while you're unjumpable, Sins can use Force Speed and Maras Predation to quicky close in on you.)

4. Change positions frequently. Staying in one place for too long will get noticed. Also there are other benefits associated with moving periodically like an instant Snipe (Snap Shot) and passive damage mitigation (Ballistic Dampeners).

5. In Marksmanship your attacks can do tremendous single-target damage but they are also vulnerable to line-of-sight issues. Try to pick targets in big open areas with few pieces of cover available. If you are focusing one target down (like a healer) look around where he can run to for cover if his HP gets too low before you engage him.

6. Watch for counter-snipers and gunslingers. If you see one, open with Diversion. They (you) are nothing without cover. If they (you) can't take cover and use essential skills, the Sniper dies very quickly. If you get hit by Diversion stay behind hard cover until the effect is gone.

7. While you're a single target killer, don't neglect AoE skills! Snipers get two awesome AoE skills even in Marksmansip spec. Place Orbital Strike periodically on objectives you're guarding like doors, nodes etc to prevent a stealth cap. Suppresive Fire is often overlooked (as it does quite low damage) but it's a great anti-stealth instant AoE skill like Stealth Scan or Hail of Bolts. Most Maras, Sins and Operatives (and their Rep counterparts) tend to vanish around/below 30%. Have Suppressive Fire ready to counter their last ditch attempt to escape. (I know good players use Force Shroud and Undying Rage in this case but visible usually means killable.)

8. Use Leg Shot before Ambush. Ambush puts a very noticable red marker on the target for all to see. It's their clue to run away if they want to live. Good players can often find cover in time. Deny them the opportunity by immobilizing them before you target them with your biggest attack.

9. Use your mezz to interrupt. Interrupts are a weakness of the Sniper because one 12cd rupt is oft times inadequate against a healer for example that can throw out large heals every 4 or 5 seconds. I usually use my normal interrupt on Salvation/Revivification and Flash Bang when they try to get their HP back up with Deliverance/Dark Infusion. This leaves the enemy healer vulnerable for a quick Snipe, Takedown and Followthrough (which at low HP usually kills them) before they can get off another big heal. Multiple people focusing the same healer helps, of course, while another healer healing your target hinders you.

10. As much as it pains me to say, go Biochem or Cybertech. I would recommend Biochem because of the short range on grenades means you'll be using them less often than melee classes. Still, I always like to have a few Seismic Grenades ready just for that pesky Mara that wants to wave his glowstick in my face. (Also, unless they're really low on HP, I'll just stun and run away.)

Been called a coward for running away from melee but it's what I do. I know the strengths of my class but I also know the limitations.

Hopefully this short (?) guide can help you to become a real killer on the battlefield and will enjoy reading it just as much as I enjoyed writing it.
This, should be stickied!

I'd like to add one more point;

-You are considered as an easy kill, use this as an advantage to draw attention when capturing a node or so. The morons will chase you while the node gets captured. Works every time.
B e a n s o u p
The one man institution you can always trust to deliver. Quality bartending at the Guilded Cantina since the fifth thread