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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

Helig's Avatar


Helig
11.14.2012 , 05:48 AM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Royox View Post
Sorcs/Sages and Snipers/Slingers are known to be the best classes to deal with Maras (maras are crying about the bubble break stuns them). Even operatives/Scoundrels can just "vanish" and run to survive.

Why Marauders have better and more defensive CD's than Juggernauts/Guardians? That has no logic. In WoW terms it would be as Warriors Fury having more defensive CD's than a Warrior Tank.
Kinda bugs me as well. Most tank CDs in ToR are pretty unimaginative/unimpressive, to be honest. The only one I really like is Shroud.

To be fair, though. Without those cooldowns, Marauders are a squishy medium armour class without any "physics" skill, ergo knockbacks, or pulls, and melee effective range. Their main job is to do damage, and to do damage they need to be within melee range, and that means the opponent dictates where the Marauder fights them - not the other way around. That means they're fully exposed to damage and to CC. They need those defenses not to be cut down immediately under stunlock upon entering melee.

However, I do not think they need *ALL* of those cooldowns, strong as they are, baseline.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
11.14.2012 , 06:10 AM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Defensive, are we now? Not really going to dissuade you. Believe what you want, if you're warm and comfortable behind the massive wall of strong opinions that you have constructed. I'm comfortable with my playing experience of several 50s, Marauder and poor underpowered Commando included, and that experience tells me that the entire "Marauders are OP" thing is just another "nerf" bandwagon.

But as I already said, their defensive cooldowns could use a bit of trimming. Other than that, it's the "RetPaladin syndrome" and nothing more.
Sorry to inform you but those are opinions of 2,2+m that left the game. Many of them were PvPers that laughed at what BW was doing.

We knew BW balances the game by "bad" factor back in Jan, what we didnt know then is that they would be dumb enough to continue it over time...so teh stellar results and "awesome" game noone wants to play.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
11.14.2012 , 06:17 AM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMike View Post
Sorry to inform you but those are opinions of 2,2+m that left the game. Many of them were PvPers that laughed at what BW was doing.

We knew BW balances the game by "bad" factor back in Jan, what we didnt know then is that they would be dumb enough to continue it over time...so teh stellar results and "awesome" game noone wants to play.
How "many" exactly were PvPers? How "many" were entitled, immature brats (who are usually the most apparent and vocal - but they never represent the actual majority)? How "many" actually were good PvPers? Finally, how "many" exactly listed "class balance" for their reason to cancel their account?

As I said, SWToR loses clients not because of class balance, but rather because of severe the lack of endgame content, and being slow and inflexible in terms of fixes for systems that don't work and polishing systems that do work.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
11.14.2012 , 06:25 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
How "many" exactly were PvPers? How "many" were not entitled, immature brats (who are usually the most apparent and vocal - but they never represent the actual majority)? How "many" actually were good PvPers? Finally, how "many" exactly listed "class balance" for their reason to cancel their account?

As I said, SWToR loses clients not because of class balance, but rather because of severe the lack of endgame content, and being slow and inflexible in terms of fixes for systems that don't work and polishing systems that do work.
A little defensive, arent we?

PvP is EXACTLY one of those systems and it INCLUDES class balance.

SWOTR loses people because its overall bad game, PvP included. Yet, there are still people like you that say everyting is awesome and all the rest are immature brats.

Well, it seems that some people dont take it well when people vote with their wallets and negate their personal opinion. people voted with their wallets but EA didnt seem catch on a hint.

Enjoy your PvE side-attracton - PvP.

Ranked WZs - ahahahahhahahahha

And, oh yes, saying that some other games have it bad so its OK for SWTOR to also have it bad is NOT good defence rofl

Loladarulz's Avatar


Loladarulz
11.14.2012 , 07:04 AM | #145
Real fight example:

My Mara Focus build: Leap 1700 Smash 5+k (stunned/knocbacked now/rooted) wait - receive dmg like a champ - or if just knockbacked zealous leap back for 2k dmg, hit filler 500-1200 dmg, hit smth else 1-2k + some other attack 1k-2k = cca 11-12k dmg avg. Try to smash again. Everyone shoot stuff in me now since I jumped in melee range, If no cds I'm dead in 2 seconds. Pop cds - if survive - repeat and kill target (if they have no healer or run away or they dont have stealth). Otherwise walk/jump to other target.

My brother with his sorc from 30 m range: zip 1k shhh3-4k smash bomp 2k zip 1k 2k 1k 3-4k 2k 1k 2k = 11-12k at the same time or even faster, he was never hit, oponnents hardly noticee him in the fight from distance. If he got hit or jumped upon/focused, he knockbacks oponnent, bubble himself, force speed run - repisition and again zip 1k smash 2k bump 3k etc 2k 1k ... lalalala. Melts ppl no problem, but you will not see shiny 5k + numbers.

Nerf maras defensive cds and class will lose everything, not defense, but dps will be reduced heavily because dead mara = 0 dps.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
11.14.2012 , 07:11 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Loladarulz View Post
Real fight example:

My Mara Focus build: Leap 1700 Smash 5+k (stunned/knocbacked now/rooted) wait - receive dmg like a champ - or if just knockbacked zealous leap back for 2k dmg, hit filler 500-1200 dmg, hit smth else 1-2k + some other attack 1k-2k = cca 11-12k dmg avg. Try to smash again. Everyone shoot stuff in me now since I jumped in melee range, If no cds I'm dead in 2 seconds. Pop cds - if survive - repeat and kill target (if they have no healer or run away or they dont have stealth). Otherwise walk/jump to other target.

My brother with his sorc from 30 m range: zip 1k shhh3-4k smash bomp 2k zip 1k 2k 1k 3-4k 2k 1k 2k = 11-12k at the same time or even faster, he was never hit, oponnents hardly noticee him in the fight from distance. If he got hit or jumped upon/focused, he knockbacks oponnent, bubble himself, force speed run - repisition and again zip 1k smash 2k bump 3k etc 2k 1k ... lalalala. Melts ppl no problem, but you will not see shiny 5k + numbers.

Nerf maras defensive cds and class will lose everything, not defense, but dps will be reduced heavily because dead mara = 0 dps.
Then everyone should get god mode, cloak of pain style buff and insta stealth(ops can get two now!) with increased movement speed. Almost got that commando down? NOPE he popped god mode and vanished and healed himself back up. Sounds balanced to me.

Loladarulz's Avatar


Loladarulz
11.14.2012 , 07:22 AM | #147
How about you trying to play mara/sent first and then come back talk about ir.

Tipically I activate stealth when I want to avoid death. In these cases most of the time I am slowed and focused to death so I must go stealth. In these precious 4 seconds Mara can barrely (or CANT at all) get time to hide behind a wall. And Mara CANNOT HEAL - where did you get this ??. Every class can use medpack, when you decide to use is your will. Mara can be killed while invisible also..

Stealth is best used to switch focus from self.. Jump smash - everyone focuses you - go invis - attack somone else in 3-4 sec. Most noob players can't focus you again.

BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.14.2012 , 07:24 AM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by fnslayeroc View Post
im a sorceror and as a person who can kite real good and do best damage out of all the sorcs in every match and can out damage any maurader i must say this in your defense.....as a sorcerer i have a harder time killing an assasssin than i do killing a maurader. and mauraders usually dont kill me. i see thier defensive crap and i punch the floor and run away simple easy done. shut up about the game being unbalanced cuz its not im not even full WH yet and ive dropped full WH vanguards. and u know sorcs we die very fast. even with the heal and the bubble. we die fast. so with my statement made, in conclusion as a class who dies very fast unless un know how to kite. assassins are actually better than mauraders. also alot of people and i mean ALOT of people are dumb and cant pvp. u have to remember and think rl hard bout this one. Ill even make a new paragraph so u can read it multiple times.

Think of all the times u tryed to kill a maurader and he didnt die. theres other reasons too A he can be guarded or healed or even both. and nobody who plays this game knows how to kill the healers first and almost every tank dont use guard in pvp they try to kill and get damage and fail and get told they're noobs. so remember that next time u qq and rage about op classes. Its not biowares fault ppl are too dumb to look thru thier abiliys know em and also try to learn the other classes too so u can pop things at the right time which is obviously what these maurders are doing. personally i was pissed that chain lightning got nerfed from wrath but u dont see me whining. i got an xtra heal now. and still do good.

ALSO everyone complains about a dying game when world pvp is non existant because they nerfed merc comms out completely. WHY WORLD PVP WHEN U GET NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Show me a video of you beating a similarly geared mara or you're lying or a mara player.
epicfail
Nothing ever good comes from gaming forums.

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.14.2012 , 07:28 AM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Then everyone should get god mode, cloak of pain style buff and insta stealth(ops can get two now!) with increased movement speed. Almost got that commando down? NOPE he popped god mode and vanished and healed himself back up. Sounds balanced to me.
You misunderstand the point. Melee naturally get more cooldowns because they are obvious and can only attack at 4 metres. They are generally noticed and attacked first because to hit you they must be in your face. Ranged dps need less cooldowns, partly because they can do damage at 30-35 metres, partly because they are less noticeable, and partly because they can kite and still do moderate damage.

Please note that marauders can't cloak away and heal. Healing for a marauder is only possible in annihliation spec (excludes rage and carnage) and can only occur if dots are up (so limited if running away). Assuming he is attacking you, the maximum healed will be 18% with full dot stacks, so not really healing himself back up.
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council

Loladarulz's Avatar


Loladarulz
11.14.2012 , 07:31 AM | #150
Someone should make a guide how to kill Mara : ) but I don't wanna do it - wouldn't help me. I feel i can probably kill 90% of Maras 1on1 on my server and I'm not even full War Hero yet with mine.