Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

Dacer's Avatar


Dacer
11.12.2012 , 06:04 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Here is a prime example of exactly what I am talking about. A marauder trying to downplay his abilities. No knockback he says and yet I get force pushed twice within 5 seconds. One stun he says and yet he admits to an AOE mez...just lol.
Since you are clearly new to MMOs let me explain the difference between a Stun and a Mezz

** A stun is a complete lockdown of a player. That is it incapacitates a player and does not break upon taking damage.
Sometimes referred to as a Hard stun.
** A mezz is a incapacitation of a player but upon damage the effect is broken.

Again the ONE stun that marauders have is force choke - that while it does a small amount of damage - its a channeled ability. Its no where near a powerful as a non-channeled stun like Inquisitors and other classes have.

we Have ONE AoE mezz that is used to stop or delay groups of players..again it breaks on damage.

Marauders do not, DO NOT, have a knockback or a knockdown. However Juggs/guardians do have a force push - but unfortunately for your argument that is a completely different Advanced Class. **Marauders and Juggernauts are different Advanced classes.

I would suggest you learn the difference in classes - it helps out a lot in pvp when you know what tools ppl have when you are fighting them.

You have proven by your statement that you see every marauder as a 31/31/31 spec - as do a lot of ppl that complain about marauders.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.12.2012 , 06:22 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
Do NOT waste your breath on these qq threads. Bioware knows that we are exactly where we need to be in pvp/pve. While there are other classes that need to be brought up a bit, we are no where near as far ahead as these people would have you believe. Every tool we have is vital for us to be able to do our job which is to deal damage. Let the QQ pile to the sky. This is the last nerf mara/sent thread I will ever click on.
heh. no you're not. you have a decided advantage over most classes in PvP (the exception is for assassins/shadows). that said, it's not THAT big of an advantage. it's just...glaring. anyway, I only replied to point out the (potentially obvious) fact that the need to balance PvE and PvP within each class, AC and spec is far more important than balancing PvP across all classes. I'm convinced that that is the only reason sents/maras have force camouflage. because stealthing in to kill a sniper is a lousy excuse for an abil when the only other relatively similar 'melee' (using the term loosely) dps has no gap closer at all for snipers in cover.

anyway...it's not a huge deal. but please, call a spade's a spade. you have appreciably more dcds than any other comparable class, burst dps that is ideal (i.e., what it should be), and you have the best utilities in game (predation or just passively heal your whole grp depending on spec). AND all three of your spec trees are viable in WZs.
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.12.2012 , 06:49 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Dacer View Post
Since you are clearly new to MMOs let me explain the difference between a Stun and a Mezz

** A stun is a complete lockdown of a player. That is it incapacitates a player and does not break upon taking damage.
Sometimes referred to as a Hard stun.
** A mezz is a incapacitation of a player but upon damage the effect is broken.

Again the ONE stun that marauders have is force choke - that while it does a small amount of damage - its a channeled ability. Its no where near a powerful as a non-channeled stun like Inquisitors and other classes have.

we Have ONE AoE mezz that is used to stop or delay groups of players..again it breaks on damage.

Marauders do not, DO NOT, have a knockback or a knockdown. However Juggs/guardians do have a force push - but unfortunately for your argument that is a completely different Advanced Class. **Marauders and Juggernauts are different Advanced classes.

I would suggest you learn the difference in classes - it helps out a lot in pvp when you know what tools ppl have when you are fighting them.

You have proven by your statement that you see every marauder as a 31/31/31 spec - as do a lot of ppl that complain about marauders.
Sorry kiddo, but I have been playing hardcore MMOs for decades. People don't use the same terms either because often stuns are used to refer to stuns that break on damage which are different. So don't try to come here and define stuff for me like you think this game is hard and complex. That just shows how narrow-minded you are.

Dovahbrah's Avatar


Dovahbrah
11.12.2012 , 07:00 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Asturias View Post
You just implyed there God Mode with this sentence. Marauders are a great class if well played but they are easy to burn down once focused on. The problem is people don't use stims and there is your OP status for any class.
Why do people always say this? Do you realize that EVERY class is easy to burn down once focused?
Leaf - 50 Commando - The Fatman Notleaf - 50 Juggernaught - POT5
Leafe - 50 Shadow - The Fatman
Leafy - 50 Vanguard - The Fatman
Leafyy - 50 Sentinel - The Fatman

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.12.2012 , 07:05 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Dovahbrah View Post
Why do people always say this? Do you realize that EVERY class is easy to burn down once focused?
+1

Every class is susceptible to being focused as well as stunned. You cannot use that as an argument because one has nothing to do with the other. This logical fallacy is called "red herring". Where someone tries to distract from the main point by bringing up something completely irrelevant.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
11.12.2012 , 07:12 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
#1) Tanks have better defensive cool-downs. Do you see any Marauders tanking bosses?

Answer: PVE enviroments consist of constant large attacks by boss mobs. In a raid, the tank takes so much damage that his defensive statistics make him a better choice than a marauder. Obviously a tank with better defensive stats is a better choice to survive the millions of incoming damage tanks are healed through in a raid night. A PVP environment is completely different; consisting of short bursty encounters. It is these short bursty encounters that make Undying Rage/GBTF the most powerful Cool-down in PVP.

#2) Undying Rage/GBTF really isn't that powerful because you can be stunned for the duration, and Force Shroud is better.
Correction Juggernuats have beter defensive cooldowns, Vanguard tanks only get a 15 second 25% mitigation buff that has a 2 min cd, adrenaline rush hardly counts has a defensive - 15% max health over 10 seconds its not even instant.

Number two only applies if you stuns are off cooldown and the maur does not have resolve immunity. I only have two stuns one for 4 sec with 2 min cd and the other 2 sec with 45 sec cd, both cost 1 ammo or 1/12 of my resouce
Crinn
Trooper Hunter

Vanguard | Commando | Powertech | Mercenary
Quote: Originally Posted by Aves
Everything is fine, calm your Crinns

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
11.12.2012 , 07:23 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
I don't agree with the bolded. Juggs are pretty strong in huttball. Assassins might be the single strongest class in huttball. But marauders are good only when predation is up and Vanguards are the single worst class in that warzone. They've got a pull every 45 seconds and a whole lot of nothing else to contribute.

All ranged classes have a serious advantage over melee in huttball--except assassins. Juggs are about on par with some of the ranged.
Ah but how many other classes have a pull? 1 and pulls are better than knockback/push because with a pull I know where my target is going to end up (firetrap) push just knocks the target around idk where they end up maybe in the low area or just a few extra feet from the goal. And those darn tank Vans have this thing called Storm where i can jump to you. I cant tell you how many goals I have gotten from storm not to mention intercepts

sorry for double post
Crinn
Trooper Hunter

Vanguard | Commando | Powertech | Mercenary
Quote: Originally Posted by Aves
Everything is fine, calm your Crinns

LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.12.2012 , 07:42 PM | #48
To the thread starter, well said and thoroughly thought out, kudos. These aren't even all of the tools available to a Mara/Sent, just the most prominent ones, the absurd amount of versatility and potency of this class is no where near balanced. Anyone who thinks otherwise is plain and simply deluding themselves and just wants to keep the class at lolHerpDerp status. Sorry kids but the class is beyond overpowered and it is completely obvious at this point.

Philelectric's Avatar


Philelectric
11.12.2012 , 08:16 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Instead of just ranting at the terrible logic being used on the forums, I decided to write out my thoughts in an organized manner:

#1) Tanks have better defensive cool-downs. Do you see any Marauders tanking bosses?

Answer: PVE enviroments consist of constant large attacks by boss mobs. In a raid, the tank takes so much damage that his defensive statistics make him a better choice than a marauder. Obviously a tank with better defensive stats is a better choice to survive the millions of incoming damage tanks are healed through in a raid night. A PVP environment is completely different; consisting of short bursty encounters. It is these short bursty encounters that make Undying Rage/GBTF the most powerful Cool-down in PVP.

#2) Undying Rage/GBTF really isn't that powerful because you can be stunned for the duration, and Force Shroud is better.

Answer: The power of defensive cool-downs and stuns are two completely different subjects. The truth is that you can be stunned during the duration of EVERY defensive cooldown besides Force Shroud. The only difference is that the Marauder will STILL BE ALIVE at the end while everyone else won't be; including the Sin who hit FS at low HP. Yes, everything is situational, but 90% of the time I would rather be alive for 4 more seconds in PVP. That's 4 more seconds for my healer to heal me, 4 more seconds to run the ball to the goal, 4 more seconds to kill my opponent before he kills me, 4 more seconds to stop a cap while team-mates catch up. And yes, Even the Sin who used FS is going to be dead, because everyone who is attentive enough to notice that the Sin is glowing yellow will use white damge attacks to finish him off. UR/GBTF is the only cool-down in the game that has essentially no counter. Sure you can stun the marauder...but there is 0 way to kill him no matter what attack you use. That's broken imo.

#3) Mele range attacks are a dissadvantage to the class.

Answer: Not in SWTOR. There are several reasons why:
a) Incredible mobility - Up to 2 leaps available which are effectively two ranged interrupts. Also, those interrupts are true interrupts. The person being lept to is stunned the instant the marauder hits his ability...before his feet even leave the ground to leap to you. Predation. 4 second vanish used as a gap closer.
b) The close quarters of objective based PVP maps nullifies ranged advantage. Even maps like Huttbal where range should have an advantage are useless. in fact its the MELE who have the advanatage because of their leaps.

#4) Marauder dps is about on par with other DPS. (Rage spec aside, which any intelligent person knows is significantly OP)

Answer: Marauders possess the unique ability to dish out high damage, while at the same time shutting the other person down. Unlike other DPS classes who have to basically use their one interrupt and maybe 2 stuns as skillfully as they can while they DPS race you down to 0 health, Marauders just shut people down simmilar to an operative coming out of stealth to attack. The ammount of Mez/Stun, and interrupts/Knockdowns combined with their 4 defensive discs makes them OVERPOWERED PVP contenders. They may have the absolute highest burst in the game, but it doesn't matter that your burst ability is 9 out of 10 when you can destroy 7/8 of the other guy's effectiveness.

***********************************************

My first Character was a Mercenary. I have since lvled an Assasin, a PT, and a Sentinel. My most played character is my Mercenary; who has BIS gear and 96 Valor. Next would by my Sin at 70 valor and mostly WH gear. I feel like I have a decent grasp of the PVP environment and I feel like there is a lot of bias thought towards balance about Marauders; who I consider to be the best PVP class in the game when played correctly. I realize that most people who PVP are terrible at playing their character, but I think the standard for balance should be based upon the potential of the class when played optimally, not the average faceroller. This is what I mean when I say Marauders are the best PVP class. The ability of a skilled Marauder to affect the outcome of a WZ is a lot higher than several other classes; even played to their fullest potential.

Phaser
The Shadowlands
1) the tanks can tank because they have a tank tree that give them passive defense and they use a specific charge/form/cylinder and none of the tanks have better defensive cooldown than a marauder

2) Simply no

3) marauders can leap and have a short cd on it, they can also use force camouflage to close the gap AND interrupt a cast and the stealth is broken by stealth scan ONLY. Also the answers you give apply to open world pvp. indeed a marauder have the exact same advantage not matter what is the battlefield

4) Not at all, look at any parse of any decent marauder. Maarauder is BY FAR the best melee dps

Also i fixed your post a bit, I was too lazy to fix it all

BUT If you read the forum a bit you'll see how snipers/assassins/powertechs/operatives healers/hybrid sorc/juggernauts are overpowered too so ya...marauders are OP like every1 but mercs lol.

This game is clearly imbalanced because 7/8 classes are overpowered...WUT DA PUCK

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.12.2012 , 08:45 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Philelectric View Post

BUT If you read the forum a bit you'll see how snipers/assassins/powertechs/operatives healers/hybrid sorc/juggernauts are overpowered too so ya...marauders are OP like every1 but mercs lol.

This game is clearly imbalanced because 7/8 classes are overpowered...WUT DA PUCK
Who is complaining that guardians and GS are OP? Also, while a healing scoundrel might be considered OP, nobody considers dps scoundrels OP. Nobody is claiming sages are OP either. Bubble stun is what's OP, and that is only because it's bugged and not working properly.